In this insightful episode, Charles explores the psychology of negotiation with Kwame Christian, founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute and host of the #1 negotiation podcast in the world. Kwame reveals his journey from being a chronic people-pleaser to becoming a negotiation expert, sharing how growing up as one of the only Black families in a small Ohio town shaped his approach to human connection. The conversation shifts from theoretical concepts to practical psychology as Kwame breaks down his "Compassionate Curiosity" framework—a three-step approach that works equally well for internal and external negotiations. Rather than focusing on tactical maneuvers, Charles and Kwame explore how creating psychological safety through emotional awareness transforms negotiation outcomes. Together, they challenge conventional negotiation wisdom, emphasizing that persuasion is most effective when imperceptible. Kwame illustrates this through real-world examples from his work with organizations like Google, Apple, and NASA. Key Takeaways: * Why understanding psychology matters more than memorizing negotiation tactics * How to use the "survivability test" to overcome negotiation anxiety * The psychological reason warm food (like pho) creates better negotiation outcomes * Why changing pronouns from "you" to "we" transforms difficult conversations Head over to podcast.iamcharlesschwartz.com to download your exclusive companion guide, designed to guide you step-by-step in implementing the strategies revealed in this episode. KEY POINTS: 5:48 - The Hidden Cost of Popularity: Kwame reveals the silent sacrifices he made to become popular: "I would say yes when I meant to say no, and I would just get along to get along... I was getting other people to like me, but at times I wasn't liking myself." 13:24 - Changing the Pronouns: Charles explains how shifting language transforms negotiations: "Instead of saying 'what do you want?' it's 'what do we want? How are we going to figure out the best solution that works for us?'" 19:41 - Simple vs. Complex: Kwame quotes Leonardo da Vinci and Bruce Lee to explain his approach: "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" and "I don't fear the man who knows 10,000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." 24:23 - The Empathy Loop: Kwame describes his three-step listening technique: "Step one is listen. Step two is summarize... And then with step three, this is the magic because we don't advance in the conversation until they give us the green light." 35:23 - Feet Don't Lie: Kwame explains why feet reveal true intentions: "Body language becomes more truthful the further away we get from the head... People don't know how to lie with their feet." 37:44 - Curious Not Clinical: Kwame emphasizes that understanding psychology starts with genuine curiosity: "Start paying attention because you start to see, oh, wait a second... people's bodies are screaming all the time." 43:25 - From People Pleaser to Confident Communicator: Kwame mentions his training program specifically designed to help people "overcome those fears, fight those internal barriers so you can be the confident negotiator you always wanted to be."
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts and guests of this negotiation podcast?
Also studierte ich Psychologie und studierte, wie man Angst und Phobien überwachen kann. Und dann die Vorstellung von Top-Performance. Und dann habe ich gemerkt, okay, ich kann anfangen, auf mich selbst zu arbeiten, um diese Angst zu überwinden. Und dann, als ich in die Rechtsschule kam, war das, als ich in die Negotiationsklasse ging. Und ich ging nach Ohio State.
Und sie haben das Top-Ranked-to-Dispute-Resolution-Programm in der Stadt. Also liebte ich die Klasse. Und ich sagte, oh mein Gott, das ist, wie ich es tatsächlich tue. Und so hatten sie diese Negotiationskompetenzen. Also es ist wie ein Mock-Trial, aber für Dealmaking.
So my partner and I, we won the competition at the school and that gave us the opportunity to represent the school at the American Bar Association competition in Ottawa, Ontario. And we won that competition too. So I was sold.
And so for me, Charles, I was saying, all right, this is great for me because every time I stand up for myself, every time I have a tough conversation, I am casting a ballot in favor of the man that I ultimately want to become. But at the same time, I realized, wait a second. Es sind wahrscheinlich andere Menschen in der Welt, die mit dem gleichen Problem kämpfen.
Ich will etwas für sie erschaffen. Und das ist es, was mich auf den Weg mit dem American Negotiation Institute und dem Podcast und dem Rest der Geschichte gebracht hat.
Also, als du darüber gesprochen hast, scheint es so zu sein, dass der Grund dafür ist, nicht zu akzeptieren oder nicht genug zu sein. Und ich denke, viele Leute, wenn sie in eine Negotiation gehen, was auch immer es ist, fühlen sie nicht, dass ihre Position wert ist, weil sie sich nicht wert fühlen. Und es gibt ein paar verschiedene Wege, in Negotiationen zu gehen.
Wenn du in eine Negotiation beginnst, was sind die wichtigen Dinge, die du sitzen und sagen willst, hey, wie fühle ich mich, als wäre ich genug? Wie mache ich es so, dass ich zumindest auf dieser Platte stehe oder in die Küche gehe und diese Rezepte implementiere? Weil die Fähigkeiten sind eine Sache, aber sie zu implementieren, ist völlig anders.
Du hast 100 Prozent recht. Und also denken wir an das kurze Szenario, richtig? Weil, wie du gesagt hast, langfristige Therapie, Journalismus, Introspection, das ist, was wir wirklich brauchen. Du weißt, dass Selbstliebe wichtig ist. Aber wir haben nicht immer die Zeit für Jahre Therapie vor unseren schwierigen Gesprächen. Also was tun wir?
One of the things that I've done is I created a survivability test. So think about taking the BATNA to the next level. So BATNA, we talk about the best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Then if you go down, we have the other ones that don't sound as cool. So I don't think they're as popular. We have MALATNA, we have WATNA.
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Chapter 2: What is Kwame Christian's background and journey into negotiation?
Because their fear was more important to resolve that than I'm going to pay an extra 510k. But ultimately Saturn went out of business for a magnitude of reasons. So understanding that human beings react on a psychological level before they do anything else. And I can't sit there and say, hey, let's have faux if you're afraid of me. We talk about this all the time. Please don't do it.
But if I ask you to sing Happy Birthday, don't do it. You probably can sing Happy Birthday. If I put a live grenade in your hand, pulled out the pin and said, please sing happy birthday, you're not singing happy birthday to me because you're like, oh my God, there's a live grenade in my hand. This happens when negotiations.
If you don't understand the psychology of a human being, I think that's a cross for you. This, I'm not going to use that expression, this ball of flesh that's in front of you, if you do not understand how to interact, connect and get the cortisol levels to go down, I don't care about any tactics you've used
So if someone comes in and they're trying to learn these psychological things from you and they're like, where do they start? What is a way that they could go into it? Is it, is it books? Is it showing up at your house and knocking on the door at four in the morning? What is the, what is the way that people start learning these things? Cause you know, there's people I know who know these tactics.
better than anyone I've ever met and they can't close the deal. And the negotiations are garbage because they haven't learned, for me, the most important part was the psychology of it. How do they get that environment? How do they start that process?
Ich denke, ehrlich gesagt, und das wird sehr einfach klingen, aber weil es so ist, müssen wir zuerst interessiert sein. Denn wir können es hier verkaufen, Charles, du und ich, wir können darüber sprechen, wie wichtig es ist. Aber es wird nicht, die Leute werden nichts tun, ohne dass sie irgendeine echte Interesse erzeugen. Also, lasst uns das in den Menschen spüren.
Also, der erste Ort, um zu beginnen, ist, indem wir Aufmerksamkeit bezahlen. Ich liebe meine Frau, sie ist sehr patient. Aber wenn ich TV sehe und wir versuchen, unsere Gehirne zu öffnen und Realität zu sehen, wie TV-Schläge oder so, dann pausiere ich immer. Ich dachte immer, das ist der Grund, warum das nicht funktioniert hat. Hast du gesehen, dass ihre Gesichtspräsen sich verändert haben?
Ihr seht das? Unsere Mannschaft hat dieselbe Frustration.
Oh, das ist das!
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