Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an Irish Independent Podcast. Coming up on the show today, two men who were at Croke Park in very different capacities on Saturday. I'm sure you have seen some of the images from Congress. They are striking. Just to remind you of the flow of the day, Saturday in the Hogan suite, in the Hogan stand, and Congress is meandering through the various motions.
For the record, the weekend tally was 16 passed, 4 rejected, 5 withdrawn. But we jump in here around five to one. The delegates are dreaming of what's on the lunch menu and suddenly a fairly humdrum Congress in the Hogan suite is interrupted by 15 to 20 loud protesters. The GAA is complicit in the genocide, in the murder, in the murder of children, women and innocent people in Palestine.
How on that pitch people were murdered by the Brits and you got complicit. collecting money for missiles, bullets and tanks that are slaughtering children. There's no motion to be heard here today. There's no democracy. The grassroots are now seeing this. It was an extraordinary intervention. The top tables sat largely motionless.
They didn't really engage with the protesters, which was probably a judicious decision. It's not a conversation you're going to win. And maybe we're all a little bit desensitized these days. And in fairness, the U.S. and Israel literally killed the leader of Iran over the weekend. So there is stiff competition. But still, you did have to stop for a second and register. What a surreal scenario.
Charlotte Burns, the GAA president, so celebrated in so many ways in his grey suit, surrounded by all of these people with signs saying things like Allianz blood money out of the GAA. You're murdering women and children. Charlotte Burns must have imagined all sorts of days when he was voted in as president back in February 23.
Extracting the GAA from links to a genocide would not have been in his wildest imagination. But there he was. So at that point, with the protesters not really moving and it being lunchtime anyway, Congress was adjourned and the protesters left. And so Congress resumed just after two o'clock, an hour later. Burns had an hour to think about what he wants to say to the delegates over lunch.
He must have given this some thought, how to reframe the afternoon. I want to play you this. This is audio from the room. The audio quality isn't perfect as a result.
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Chapter 2: What happened during the protest at GAA Congress?
He's not really talking to media. He's on the house microphone here. But it's audible enough. And he got very personal. He cited the death of his friend, Michael Donnelly, over 50 years ago in Donnelly's bar in Silver Bridge on a night when three people were murdered. It was in 1875.
I got in my car on 18 December 2025 and drove to the front of Donnelly's house and shop, which is still there, to make a speech. Fifty years on, justice still hasn't been served. For the 120 innocent Catholics who were murdered by the Lennon gang, of illegal occupation.
I don't need any lectures from people shouting in my face about what it's like to go to bed at night, fearful that somebody would rush into your bedroom and riddle you with words. Because that was my lived experience. For Burns, who is a brilliant orator, he received a resounding response.
But one suspects the protesters also came away feeling mission accomplished because Allianz was back on the agenda in a big way again. That evening on RT television, Peter Canavan was pitch side with presenter Joan Cantwell. He had been outside Crow Park that morning, a high profile participant in the protest. And he gave his reaction to Burns' very personal words.
Yeah, strange comparison, but a lot of what he said, I would echo in that it does strike a chord. And you go back to when we were younger and to what we had to endure. And, you know, Jarlett spoke about what happened in Donnelly's Bar. There was a lot of atrocities went on. And what kept us going was the GAA. We had something to do, something to be part of.
And for a lot of us, it was the GAA that saved us.
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Chapter 3: How did the protesters express their concerns at the event?
there's thousands of children aren't getting that opportunity. He also referenced, and Jarleth is still sore from something that happened 50 years ago, and rightly so, and he mentioned that there was no convictions on that channel. That was 50 years ago. Why? Because so many people prayed their head in the sand, didn't want to know what was going on. The exact same is happening now with us.
We've an opportunity as an association to do the right things we want, just to do. And I have no doubt that if this sponsorship wasn't as big, wasn't as huge in terms of the financial aspect, then I've no doubt that the GA would have dropped them and said, we can do without you. It was a very striking television moment.
But of course, on this issue, hypocrisies and complications are never far away. Joanne Cantwell put a salient point to Canavan. It is important at this stage that we very much acknowledge the hypocrisy here for myself and Peter because obviously regularly on a Sunday night we appear on a show with the name Allianz League Sunday.
I did point out that the first programme of the season that this was a concern I raised back in September and one of the reasons was is that we are then being hypocrites here having a conversation like this and we were told that under contractual obligations Orti is obliged to name the highlight show
by the official name of the competition, which once they made that decision is, of course, the Allianz Leagues. But what about people, Peter, who are sitting here listening to you and saying, and yet you're taking money to appear on a show with Allianz as the sponsors? Yeah, and a lot of players are playing the game at the minute and they're not happy with the sponsor.
A lot of managers are taking part in the National League and they're not happy with the sponsor. A lot of commentators and funders... So they haven't actually come out, many of them, and said it, Peter. Yeah. Yeah, they're playing the game and they're getting on with playing the game and managers want to keep out of that sort of thing.
As for myself in this role, I'm employed by RTE to give my opinion. It might be better for some people if I was silenced and I did decide to make a statement. I don't know what good that would do, but as I said, I'm employed by them to give my opinion on the game and that's what I'm doing. It may not go down well in some quarters, naturally enough, but I'll say what I think.
It was a difficult circle to square. Just to state the very short version of that UN report, by the way, is that Allianz is cited as an extreme example of ties to what's happening in Gaza. So post-October 7th, in an effort to fund their military efforts, Israel issued bonds in two big tranches, one of 5 billion, one of 3 billion.
And Allianz, through their company PIMCO, bought just shy of a billion dollars worth of these bonds. That is why they in particular are viewed as particularly egregious sponsors by the protesters outside Crow Park. Our two guests today, Colm O'Rourke, who was outside Crow Park, and first Colm Keyes, who was reporting inside Crow Park. And just to note, we did request Charlotte Burns to join us.
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Chapter 4: What was the reaction of GAA officials to the protest?
Gill's Corner down to Jones's Road, or down Jones's Road to the doors, the front doors on the Hogan Stand side. And obviously there was speeches and there was a rally there and there was lots of noise and you could hear it outside. I was at the back of the hall and I could hear it prolonged for an hour, an hour and a half. You could hear it. I don't think they could hear it up the front.
And the noise got louder in the room. You could hear it then and members of staff and security came running into the room and suddenly the room was filled with, I think, up to 15 or 20 people. protesters and they obviously unfurled the banner as you
as you alluded to there, and there were shouts of aliens out, it was noisy, it was disruptive, it was a little bit belligerent, but I think after a while people realised, well, there isn't really a threat here to safety. Initially, I'm sure there was people in the room were stunned by this and shocked by it, that where has this come from?
And there's obviously been a breach at the front door or wherever else, but... Jareth Burns appealed for them. You've made your point now. Can you go along on your way? And they didn't. So he paused. It was coming close to the lunch break anyway. And in Congress, the Amateur Status Review Committee report and the motions were being discussed.
I didn't think they were going all that well for the proponents of it. But this pause then to allow for lunch probably diffused the situation in the room. But the bigger issue was at the front door because that's where there was a forced entry where they pushed through the front doors. I understand there was five members of staff security, one female who were pushed aside.
And from what I gather from speaking to Croke Park sources, and again, just before I come in here, just to double check, some of them, according to the report I have about it, They were hit by poles and kicked and knocked to the ground and they did seek, some of them sought medical attention, but thankfully they're all okay.
But some of the protesters then moved up obviously through the lifts or through the concourse and got up to the fifth floor where they were able to make that protest. So there is obviously... You know, there will be a security review with regard to Crowe Park. They have had protests by gales against genocide before and they've gone off peacefully.
And I think the expectation was with the people involved that this would be peaceful and it would remain at the front door. And as Jared Burns said, we we we. We allow and we embrace protests when they're outside. And he referenced Eid, the Eid celebration that's coming up in a few weeks. He said there'll be protests for that and we won't be moving anyone away from our doors.
But he did say inside the sacred place and we should be allowed to continue on the democratic business of our Congress and the decisions that Congress and by extension the the management committee have taken. So that's where it rested. Jarrett Burns did come back.
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Chapter 5: What impact did the protest have on the Congress proceedings?
Okay. We'll talk to Colm O'Rourke. Now, as Colm mentioned there, a number of the higher profile GAA figures present on Saturday were the likes of David Hickey and Mickey Whelan, Pat Gilroy, Peter Canavan, Brennan Devaney and Colm O'Rourke is with us now. Hi, Colm. Thanks for the time. Hello, Joe.
Let's just start with a point Charlotte Burns directed almost directly to you and some of your other more high profile gales, which was about the violence at the front door, that it crossed a line, that that shouldn't have happened. That aspect of the protest shouldn't have happened. Yeah, well, I suppose just to give the background to it, there were several hundred people.
This was the biggest protest that we have had. And we've had a number of them at Crow Park. But this was the biggest by far. People had spoken, myself included. The thing had concluded. And we were moving away at that point. In fact, I was walking down the street with Pat Gilroy when he pointed out to me that there was some sort of commotion at the front door.
So I was at home when I heard later that there had been a breach and people had gone upstairs and disrupted the Congress. Now, I certainly wouldn't be happy with the idea that anybody would be pushed aside or assaulted or that delegates would in any way feel intimidated or threatened. I don't think anybody
would like to hear that, even though I don't think Janet would be the sort of fellow who would be intimidated very easily. But shouting in people's faces and that sort of stuff, even though I think that within a few minutes, as Colin was saying, that Order was restored. I think people realised that this wasn't a group who were going to cause any damage in any shape or form.
But nobody should feel threatened or intimidated. That's the first point. But exactly the same as Colin Keyes has said, if this didn't happen, happened, what protest there was about Allianz might be covered fleetingly in the sports pages. Maybe we would have got a little bit of comment from a few commentators. But it wouldn't have made the mainstream.
You wouldn't be talking to me, Joe, because of that, you know. And this is the opportunity that's brought about because of what happened, which was nothing to do with the initial protests and speeches that we made at Crowe Park on Saturday. Yeah. There's a couple of things I want to push away. The depth of feeling about this issue amongst the GAA. Because Jarlett Burns has questioned that.
So I have some quotes here from December. He was talking here about the petition of 800 past and present players, male and female. What he said about that was, 800 might seem like a lot, but in the vast scheme of things, it's 0.13% of our membership. And then he said, in the last month, I've been to something like 27 clubs.
At no stage, at no stage has anybody brought me aside and said, I'm very uncomfortable with this Allianz situation. That surprised me, I have to say, that he was suggesting this is not a big feeling amongst the GEA fraternity. Well, the feeling among the GEA fraternity is better advertised by the fact that nine counties passed motions against, to get rid of Allianz.
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Chapter 6: How did Colm O'Rourke reflect on the protest's significance?
the global supply chain, the integrated nature of global business, there are tentacles reaching into the Israeli economy for so many businesses and so many corporate bodies that could provide sponsorship, even from a technological point of view.
If you look at the UN report and you see Project Nimbus and Google and Amazon coming together for that 1.2 billion contract, Amazon are one of the GA sponsors. They sponsored the club summit last month and At the launch in January, Amazon.ie, our sponsors, Peter Canavan, who was outside the doors of Croke Park, as Colm mentioned, he spoke at the club forum. He was part of the launch.
So there's that intractability for all of these companies. And that's the difficulty that the GA have highlighted. And certainly from the point of insurance, it would leave it difficult. it would leave it difficult to find suitable insurance replacement on the scale that's required, not just for the injury fund, but for the property, for public liability. That's vast.
You're not going down to your local broker like that. So you're looking to find an insurer that does not have
veins and arteries into the israeli economy or perhaps and jared burns mentioned other geopolitical situations obviously another one developing in the middle east and his point is where do we draw the line and all of this there's a lot of people being killed in iran by u.s u.s military at the moment do we have the same do we take the same approach to you to companies who have bonds invested in the u.s market so
there is that fear that the intractability of this leaves it all so difficult. But notwithstanding that, I think if you look at the UN report, I think it's quite clear. It's a question of, is it a question of scale or principle?
Because if it's a question of scale, what it looks like, and again, we have referenced this before, Allianz, through the asset management company, purchased bonds after October 2023. So they went in heavy after that. Does that make them more culpable? If you take the UN report, yes. In exclusivity, well, they are one of the biggest bearers of Israeli bonds. Yeah.
Post-23, Israel issued two lots of bonds for 5 billion and 3 billion, and PIMCO effectively took a billion, 960 million, I think, which put them pretty much... the top purchaser of these bonds, which again were very much issued after 2023, which were very much entangled with the genocide.
So I suppose, Colm O'Rourke, that's maybe where Allianz have raised their head above the parapet here more than other companies. Because Charlotte Burns did say, listen, look what's happened in Iran. I mean, we saw... The US blow up a school in Iran. Innocent schoolgirls blown to smithereens. And he pointed to Coca-Cola on the wall. Do they have US bonds? Do I get rid of Coca-Cola?
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Chapter 7: What are the ethical implications of Allianz's sponsorship?
There is that intractability question for the GA, even from a point of view of service providers. Microsoft are their partner in terms of, for everything, even the running of Furin, the membership platform, everything. So Microsoft are heavily invested in the Israeli economy, so are Google. Do you draw a line?
Do you say we're not using any of those because you'll be looking for a, and they're mentioned, liberally mentioned in the UN report, So there's that difficulty, too, that you may dispel Allianz, but you'll still be using the software of technology companies. But they're not sponsors. That's the big thing. Well, if there's a distinction between a sponsor and a service provider.
So that is a difficulty, I think, ultimately. Allianz won't be sponsors in the future. They sponsor the football championship until 2028 and the leagues until 2030. I can see it limping along. I think Allianz will take their own soundings. How is this playing out for us from a commercial point of view? And I think that ultimately the partnership will dissolve over time.
I think we're going to see, Joe, as a final thing, I think we're going to see fairly quickly too that the INTO and the primary schools organisation in the north will be passing motions at their conference there. annual conferences that they don't want anything more to do with Allianz. I think that's inevitable. I did see a poster, teachers of Ireland or something to that effect at the protest.
It's a rolling stone and it's beginning to gather a lot of moss. This is where things get almost parody of themselves. There is a degree of pragmatism, Colm O'Rourke, on your part when it comes to headline sponsor versus a partner, because as Colm Keyes here has said, and I think as the GAA have alluded to, where does this end?
So, I mean, are you not going to use an iPhone or you're not going to use Microsoft technology or you're not going to? You know, where do you buy your clothes from? Can you absolutely vouch they weren't bought in a sweatshop? I mean, anybody who's whiter than white, I've yet to meet them because we are all full of hypocrisies. Peter Canavan, you know, is put to an RTE, spoke really well.
He said, well, but you're here on Alliance League Sunday taking money. So people are open to hypocrisies here. So, you know, you draw the line at sponsors, but you're more than happy for the GAA to be partnered up and to use Amazon and to use Microsoft and all these other companies. Well, if we didn't do all of those things, we'd have to go back to the Dark Ages. Correct.
And we would be living in caves and out hunting people. by hand and with stone implements that's the way we go back if we were to disentangle ourselves totally but again I go back to the point any company named in a UN report associated with genocide. I draw the line on that. I don't think there can be any equivocation on that. We are a bit different.
I know we're not a professional organisation. We're an amateur organisation. We're supposed to represent the best
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