Episode web page: https://bit.ly/3YTrCuW ----------------------- Got a question? Want to recommend a guest? Or do you want to tell me how the show can be better? Send me a voice message via email at [email protected] ----------------------- In this episode of Insights Unlocked, UserTesting CMO Johann Wrede chats with Udi Ledergor, former CMO and current Chief Evangelist at Gong, and author of Courageous Marketing. Udi shares why bold, differentiated marketing beats "best practices" every time—and how marketers can unlock extraordinary results by giving themselves permission to stand out. Drawing from his own nontraditional career path from magician and musician to marketing leader, Udi explains why simply following industry norms creates a "sea of sameness." He unpacks strategies for building trust with sales, the critical importance of aligning marketing metrics to real business outcomes, and how to thoughtfully invest in brand marketing—even when budgets are tight. Whether you're just starting out or leading a large marketing team, this episode offers candid, actionable advice for becoming a more courageous marketer, building iconic brands, and driving measurable impact. Why following marketing "best practices" leads to ordinary results How courageous marketing stands out and drives growth Practical tips for building trust and alignment between marketing and sales How to measure brand investments creatively when ROI isn’t immediate Smart ways to manage marketing experiments with limited budgets Career advice for marketers at every stage—from entry-level to CMO Resources & Links: Connect with Udi on LinkedIn Udi’s new book: Courageous Marketing Udi’s website Gong Connect with Johann Wrede on LinkedIn Learn more about Insights Unlocked: usertesting.com/podcast What you'll learn:
Full Episode
Welcome back to the Insights Unlocked podcast. In this episode, we're talking with Udi Ledegor, the former CMO and current chief evangelist at Gong, about why courageous marketing and not just following best practices is the key to standing out and driving real business results. Udi shares lessons from his own journey and offers practical advice for marketers at every stage of their career.
Enjoy the show. Welcome to Insights Unlocked, an original podcast from User Testing, where we bring you candid conversations and stories with the thinkers, doers, and builders behind some of the most successful digital products and experiences in the world, from concept to execution.
Welcome to the Insights Unlocked podcast. I'm Nathan Isaacs, Principal Content Marketing Manager at UserTesting. And joining us today as host is UserTesting's CMO, Johan Reed. Welcome, Johan. Thanks, Nathan. And our guest today is Udi Lederger, a five-time B2B marketing leader who served as CMO during Gong's rise from SaaS startup to industry dominance.
Udi has advised startups, served on boards, and mentored hundreds of marketers. His work reveals how courage and creativity can build iconic brands. He's also author of the recently published Courageous Marketing. Welcome to the show, Udi. Thank you so much, Nathan, Johan. I'm excited to be here.
I'll jump right in. I looked at your journey and I read your book, Udi, and it stood out to me that as a magician and a musician, to get to the CMO role and now the chief evangelist role, that is anything but a typical career arc.
And so what I'd love to start with is when you look back at that arc, going from this performing arts background to building one of tech's most iconic brands, what really stood out to you as being pivotal in shaping the way that you think about storytelling and brand today?
I think the main point that I figured out, which is also the theme of my book, Courageous Marketing, is that most marketers either... by choice or because they feel they don't have permission to do otherwise, they tend to do best practice marketing.
They tend to follow conventions by looking around them, what the bigger competitors are doing and thinking that if they do the same, they will enjoy the same status. But that's the fallacy because by doing that, you create a sea of sameness and you do anything but stand out. By the time anything becomes a best practice, everybody's doing it.
And so it's really a boring practice that if you do it, you will get ordinary results. If you want extraordinary results, you need to do something different. And that's where courageous marketing comes in. That's where...
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