Happy New Year! Pop champagne, kiss a loved one, and turn on the rom-com that made New Year's Eve a backdrop of your fall inspo Pinterest board: When Harry Met Sally. But don't stop there. Ilana Kaplan, author of Nora Ephron at the Movies, joins the show to put a spotlight on the woman that helped usher in the golden era of rom-coms and influenced the return of rom-coms.Support public media and receive ad-free listening & bonus content by joining NPR+ today: https://plus.npr.org/ Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What New Year's tradition is highlighted in the episode?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Happy New Year, my friends. There are so many ways to celebrate the new year. Watching the ball drop with friends, popping champagne. But there's one tradition that stands above them all.
And it's not because I'm lonely. And it's not because it's New Year's Eve. I came here tonight because when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.
For years, rom-com fans have set their New Year's Eve countdown to the runtime of When Harry Met Sally. So they ring in the year just at the point Billy Crystal's Harry declares his love for Meg Ryan's Sally. But if you're a true rom-com fan, like me, you know that When Harry Met Sally is just the starter. You gotta watch the whole trilogy. Sleepless in Seattle.
I saw you in... The street.
And you've got mail.
How can you forgive this guy for standing you up and not forgive me for this tiny little thing?
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Chapter 2: How did Nora Ephron influence rom-coms?
These seminal rom-coms are all the brain children of journalist, director, and screenwriter Nora Ephron. Whose work behind the scenes has paved the way for some of our most beloved romantic comedies. But even though Nora's impact is felt far beyond the screen, her legacy is rarely mentioned alongside her contemporaries. That's why today I'm sitting down with writer and author Ilana Kaplan.
Chapter 3: What is the significance of 'When Harry Met Sally'?
She wrote Nora Ephron at the Movies, a look at Nora's life, legacy, and why her work still rings true when the clock strikes 12. Ilana, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Thanks for having me. Our pleasure. Our pleasure. Especially to talk about the topic we're going to talk about today. This is exactly the kind of warm, cozy chat that I want to have at this time of year. So I want to take it back.
to When Harry Met Sally. You say that film revived the modern rom-com. Tell us how.
I think before When Harry Met Sally, we had gone through years of rom-coms where the female heroines were often very polished and put together and had beautiful, refined outfits. They weren't wearing necessarily like sweaters and jeans.
I didn't even think about that, like not even dressed casually.
Chapter 4: How did Nora Ephron change female representation in film?
Yeah. I'm thinking of like An Affair to Remember. Oh, yeah. You know, Nora saw women in a different way. She applied the female gaze to her characters. When we saw something like When Harry Met Sally, we saw Sally. Sally was messy and outspoken and really anal retentive.
And at the same time, the conversation about female sexuality, female pleasure wasn't really at the forefront of conversations anymore. And when Nora had this deli scene in When Harry Met Sally, it ignited a conversation. And it's probably opened a lot of doors for the way we talk about sexuality in rom-coms today.
Nora wrote and directed women through the female gaze. And so they were these flawed human beings. They were these flawed messes. I mean, I think about that original scene in When Harry Met Sally. Yeah. And Harry and Sally eat at this diner because they're on this road trip. And Sally's ordering this slice of pie.
But I'd like the pie heated. And I don't want the ice cream on top. I want it on the side. And I'd like strawberry instead of vanilla if you have it. If not, then no ice cream, just whipped cream. But only if it's real. If it's out of a can, then nothing.
Not even the pie? because these female characters get loved despite all of their flaws, like we all hope to be, I think that that also is something that viewers get really attached to.
Yeah. I feel like those quote unquote high maintenance quirks of Sally's, for instance, could be like so annoying, but it's endearing and it makes the character interesting and that she's so particular about the way that she consumes food. And those are the moments that you could really see Nora in the script because she was so particular about food.
I also think about, as you described earlier in our conversation and in your book, the How her characters were, if not tough, they were cosmopolitan and somewhat streetwise in terms of dating. They didn't turn away from frank talk about sex. Different scenes throughout her other rom-coms as well, where women are talking frankly, not just with men, but with each other about sex.
The experiences that they've had with men, the experiences they've had with dating, becoming a little jaded over time. These women were ambitious and smart, and they were the opposite kind of of that lovestruck, virginal woman character from rom-coms of the past.
Talk to me about the impact of Nora's turning away from that kind of dichotomy of the very experienced man who is falling in love with this virginal lamb of a woman.
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Chapter 5: What role did Nora play in the rom-com boom of the 90s?
Yes.
You know, you also said that with her romantic comedies, Nora didn't just reinvigorate the genre. She also reinvigorated the film market as well. And in your book, you say that she alone is at least partially responsible for the rom-com boom of the 1990s and 2000s. And that's like a golden era that a lot of people talk about wanting to go back to.
Talk to me about why you say that Nora is responsible for kind of stoking that market.
Because I think after, you know, she had the success of the rom-com trio, When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, You've Got Mail, other directors wanted what she was having, essentially.
Right.
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Chapter 6: How did other filmmakers respond to Nora Ephron's success?
They wanted to craft their own Nora Ephron movies. So, like, for instance, Richard Curtis wanted to follow in her footsteps.
Oh, Richard Curtis, like, for Weddings and a Funeral?
Yes.
He wanted to follow in her—I mean, I'm not surprised by that, but I didn't realize that time-wise that's how that worked out.
Yes. And John Turtletaub of While You Were Sleeping really wanted to follow in Nora Ephron's footsteps with— So if you're watching the dinner scene where Sandra Bullock's character goes to Peter's family's dinner, that whole scene could have been in a Nora Ephron movie.
Alan Ladd wasn't tall. Marshall Dillon was six foot five. Well, we all know who Lucy's type is. His mashed potatoes are so creamy.
They're all having different conversations over one another. And the grandma's just being like, oh, the mashed potatoes are so creamy. Or like, it's so familiar to like Nora Ephron territory. And you can see those little quirks.
Coming up, I continue my conversation with Alana about Nora Ephron's legacy and how her influence shows up in the modern romantic comedies we know and love today.
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