The price of eggs is skyrocketing due to avian flu, with no clear signs of slowing down. This week, Brittany is joined by NPR health correspondent Will Stone and public health nutritionist Marion Nestle to understand the precarities of our food safety system, and what we can do to stay safe. Support public media and receive ad-free listening. Join NPR+ today. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: Why are egg prices rising?
The avian flu, also known as bird flu, is causing outbreaks in poultry. But it's not just in birds. It's been found in U.S. dairy cows, and there have been several recent human cases found in workers at dairy and poultry facilities. Don't panic just yet. Right now, the risk of mass human infection is low. And there's no evidence that anyone in the U.S.
Chapter 2: What is avian flu and how does it affect food safety?
has contracted bird flu from eating eggs or from drinking raw milk. But over 20 million egg-laying chickens have gone up to that golden coop in the sky in the last five months alone. And scientists are concerned about the virus's ability to mutate and the risks it poses to human health. The thing that gets me about all this, this outbreak has been going on for years.
It has killed over 100 million animals since 2022. So why is it that now the public is finally taking notice?
I think the moment is particularly alarming because... We have seen this infiltrate our food supply and things that we take for granted, like milk, like eggs, in a way that just hadn't been really apparent to the average consumer before this. And we've seen more people getting infected. And there were hopes that when there was a spillover from wild birds into dairy cattle—
That would kind of be contained. It would burn out. And that hasn't happened. We continue to see it spreading in cattle. And scientists continue to track ways in which this could become more dangerous. And I think it just has kind of reached a critical mass of concern right now.
Marian, what about you? What do you think makes this moment unique with bird flu?
Well, I think it's a combination of the numbers and the politics. We're at a particular political moment in which the Trump administration has decided that information about bird flu is one of the things that they're not going to be releasing to the public. So that puts this kind of what are they trying to hide situation up there.
I think public health people are very, very concerned about the fact that there's this vast destruction of animal life to try to prevent this flu from getting into people or for that matter, pet cats. The probability of this virus getting into people seems bigger than zero. And a lot of people are really concerned about it.
Yeah, yeah. I echo that concern. And also, I mean, even just thinking about like kind of this moment that we're in right now, thinking about not just bird flu and how it's affected our egg supply, but just thinking about other kinds of, you know, food related recalls that have been happening over the past like four to six months.
I mean, just this week, there's a recall of some canned tunas, some canned tuna brands over concerns about botulism risk. Marion, is there a time when the American people were deeply roused to care about our food system and how their food is being prepared and grown?
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Chapter 3: What historical events have shaped food safety awareness?
I see. I see. But also sometimes when you think about like the ethical or even the safety concerns that come up in really understanding how our food is grown and raised and where it comes from, I think a lot of consumers might not want to be thinking about that either.
And if I can point to something that Marion brought up, this idea that we don't necessarily know what's going on and don't want to think about it. We saw this last year when we realized, oh yeah, there's viral material from bird flu on our store shelves all over the country.
And then, of course, there was a huge effort to test all of this and determine, okay, it's pasteurized, it's safe, you're not going to get infected from milk being sold on retail stores. But It was a moment of, oh, wow, yeah, I'm drinking something that has remnants of bird flu in it. And I don't know how long that stayed in people's minds.
That's a very, very, very good point. Something that you've said, Will, that makes bird flu so difficult or complex to address is that there is an animal response. Like, there's a response to... Herds of animals that are being affected, but also there needs to be a response to human infection. How are we seeing our government respond or not respond to the crisis at hand, Will?
Well, it's been incredibly challenging bridging these two areas of public health, the human side and the animal side. You see USDA does all the animal testing and handles that stuff. Then you have CDC and other folks looking for infections in humans. And, you know, there's limited authority on the human side.
So it's been a challenge throughout the last year as we've seen this response going on, making these decisions. Different groups speak to each other. And also, of course, the industry, the dairy industry, the egg industry, you know, wants to be protective of kind of who's identified as having outbreaks. They don't want their business to be harmed.
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Chapter 4: Why aren’t people more concerned about food safety today?
And this all makes it really hard sometimes for from a communication standpoint.
You know, all this is happening as Trump's Secretary of Health and Human Services pick, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., was confirmed by the Senate this week. So now the person tasked with preparing for and responding to national public health threats like, say, bird flu, is someone who has shown deep skepticism for vaccines in humans, let alone animals.
Will, how does RFK and the cabinet have the potential to shape the future of food safety?
So RFK has this messaging around raw milk, right? We're talking about bird flu. He's a big proponent of raw milk and talking about getting all kinds of additives and kind of pesticides out of our food. And at the same time, the platform of the Trump administration is generally deregulate things. So there are internal kind of
tensions here around how all of this is going to happen when we think about just regulation around food and ingredients in general. I mean, when we think about bird flu specifically, RFK Jr. has made it clear that, you know, he doesn't really think the vaccines are any good. I mean, he said they appear dangerous, you know, last year on Twitter.
And he would have huge influence over how this response is handled as the head of the Department of Health and Human Services.
You know, a lot of people have been worried about how to shop in the face of all these headlines and all these discussions about avian flu. And no one that we know of in the U.S. has contracted bird flu from eating eggs or drinking pasteurized or even raw milk at this moment.
But aside from buying or not buying something, what are other ways consumers can take action if they're feeling concerned about how bird flu is affecting our food supply? Cook your food. Cook your food? Say more. That's one I haven't heard before, Marianne.
If you're looking at the personal level, that's the easiest way to do it. Heat kills bacteria and viruses. Heat kills bird flu. Pasteurization kills bird flu. You're worried about eggs? Cook them. Don't eat them raw. So, I mean, that's the easy one. I mean, there are basic rules about food safety in the home. Wash your hands. Wash the surfaces. Keep hot foods hot and cold foods cold.
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Chapter 5: How is the government responding to the bird flu crisis?
Chapter 6: What role does public perception play in food safety?
Chapter 7: How does political climate affect food safety regulation?
That's a very, very, very good point. Something that you've said, Will, that makes bird flu so difficult or complex to address is that there is an animal response. Like, there's a response to... Herds of animals that are being affected, but also there needs to be a response to human infection. How are we seeing our government respond or not respond to the crisis at hand, Will?
Well, it's been incredibly challenging bridging these two areas of public health, the human side and the animal side. You see USDA does all the animal testing and handles that stuff. Then you have CDC and other folks looking for infections in humans. And, you know, there's limited authority on the human side.
So it's been a challenge throughout the last year as we've seen this response going on, making these decisions. Different groups speak to each other. And also, of course, the industry, the dairy industry, the egg industry, you know, wants to be protective of kind of who's identified as having outbreaks. They don't want their business to be harmed.
And this all makes it really hard sometimes for from a communication standpoint.
You know, all this is happening as Trump's Secretary of Health and Human Services pick, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., was confirmed by the Senate this week. So now the person tasked with preparing for and responding to national public health threats like, say, bird flu, is someone who has shown deep skepticism for vaccines in humans, let alone animals.
Will, how does RFK and the cabinet have the potential to shape the future of food safety?
So RFK has this messaging around raw milk, right? We're talking about bird flu. He's a big proponent of raw milk and talking about getting all kinds of additives and kind of pesticides out of our food. And at the same time, the platform of the Trump administration is generally deregulate things. So there are internal kind of
tensions here around how all of this is going to happen when we think about just regulation around food and ingredients in general. I mean, when we think about bird flu specifically, RFK Jr. has made it clear that, you know, he doesn't really think the vaccines are any good. I mean, he said they appear dangerous, you know, last year on Twitter.
And he would have huge influence over how this response is handled as the head of the Department of Health and Human Services.
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Chapter 8: What future challenges might arise in food safety?
You sensed it. You sensed it. While Oregon achieved statehood on V-Day 1859 and Arizona achieved it on the same day in 1912, Montana achieved statehood November 1889. To recap the score, Will, you are at zero points. Marion, you are in the lead with one point. Without further ado, the final question for the win. This is winner takes all.
When it comes to Valentine's Day, the flowers, chocolate and jewelry can really add up. According to the National Retail Federation, how much money are Americans expected to spend this year on Valentine's Day? A, $15.8 billion. B, $27.5 billion. Or C, $32.1 billion. I'll pick the middle one. $32 billion. Well, Marianne, you got the magic touch. The answer is $27.5 billion.
That figure is actually up from last year's $25.8 billion. So maybe it's a sign that those relationships are still going strong. I don't know. I don't know. We eat a lot of candy in America. We do eat a lot of candy in America. Although I have to say, I am not really a big candy on the day. I'm a big candy on the 15th when it's half off kind of person. That's just me. All right.
That's it for But Did You Know? For this week, congratulations to Marion on your very tidy win. And Marion, Will, thank you both so much for joining me today.
It was fun. Thanks.
It was. That was NPR's Will Stone and public health nutritionist Marion Nessel. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Lewis. Talk soon.
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