Lex Fridman Podcast
#462 – Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson: Politics, Trump, AOC, Elon & DOGE
26 Mar 2025
Ezra Klein is one of the most influential voices representing the left-wing of American politics. He is a columnist for the NY Times and host of The Ezra Klein Show. Derek Thompson is a writer at The Atlantic and host of the Plain English podcast. Together they have written a new book titled Abundance that lays out a set of ideas for the future of the Democratic party. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep462-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/ezra-klein-and-derek-thompson-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: Abundance (new book): https://amzn.to/4iZ1S8J Ezra's X: https://x.com/ezraklein/ Ezra's Instagram: https://instagram.com/ezraklein Ezra's YouTube: https://youtube.com/EzraKleinShow The New York Times: https://nytimes.com/by/ezra-klein Derek's X: https://x.com/dkthomp Plain English (podcast): https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/plain-english-with-derek-thompson The Atlantic: https://theatlantic.com/author/derek-thompson/ SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: Call of Duty: First-person shooter video game. Go to https://callofduty.com/warzone LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex AG1: All-in-one daily nutrition drinks. Go to https://drinkag1.com/lex Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex OUTLINE: (00:00) - Introduction (03:17) - Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (10:33) - Left-wing vs right-wing politics (19:54) - Political leaders on the left and the right (44:29) - Internal political divisions (47:29) - AOC (58:50) - Political realignment (1:10:32) - Supply-side progressivism (1:17:42) - Wealth redistribution (1:27:50) - Housing problem (1:44:09) - Regulation and deregulation (2:00:43) - DOGE, Elon, and Trump (2:59:46) - Sam Harris (3:09:24) - Future of America PODCAST LINKS: - Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips
Full Episode
The following is a conversation with Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. Ezra is one of the most influential voices representing the left wing of American politics. He is a columnist for the New York Times, author of Why We're Polarized, and host of the Ezra Klein Show. Derek is a writer at The Atlantic, author of Hitmakers and On Work, and host of the Plain English podcast.
Together, they've written a new book, simply titled Abundance, that lays out a kind of manifesto for the left. It is already a controversial, widely debated book, but I think it puts forward a powerful vision for what the Democratic Party could stand for in the coming election. If I may, let me comment on the fact that sometimes on this podcast, I delve into the dark realm of politics.
Indeed, politics often divides us, and frankly, brings out the worst in some very smart people. Plus, to me, it is frustrating how much of the political discourse is drama, and how little of it is rigorous, empathetic discussion of policy. I hate this, but I guess I understand why.
If the other side is called either Hitler or Stalin online by swarms of chanting mobs, it's hard to carry out a nuanced discussion about immigration, healthcare, housing, education, foreign policy, and so on. On top of that, anytime I talk about politics, half the audience is pissed off at me. And no, there is no audience capture.
I get shit on equally by different groups across the political spectrum, depending on the guest. Why, I don't know, but I'm slowly coming to accept that this is the way of the world. I try to maintain my cool, return hate with compassion, and learn from the criticism and the general madness of it all. Still, I think it's valuable to sometimes talk about politics.
It's an important part to the big picture of human civilization, but indeed, it is only still a small part. My happy place is talking to scientists, engineers, programmers, video game designers, historians, philosophers, musicians, athletes, filmmakers, and so on. So I apologize for the occasional detour into politics, especially over the past few months.
I did a few conversations with world leaders, and I have a few more coming up. So there will be a few more political podcasts coming out, in part so I can be better prepared to deeply understand the mind, the life, and the perspective of each world leader.
I hope you come along with me on this journey into the darkness of politics as I try to shine a light on the complex human mess of it all, hoping to understand us humans better, always backed, of course, by deep, rigorous research and by empathy. Long term, I hope for political discussions to be only a small percentage of this podcast. If it's not your thing, please just skip these episodes.
Or maybe come along anyway, since both you and I are reluctant travelers on this road trip. But who knows what we'll learn together about the world and about ourselves. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It is, in fact, the best way to support this podcast.
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