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Chapter 1: What emotional impact did the difficult maths paper have on students?
LiveLine with Kieran Cuddihy on RTÉ Radio 1.
51551 like I said before the break the number for your texts are 087 484 848 no 484 8888 anyway 087 484 8888 and Denise is oh no Denise is not on the line Ross Kenny sorry is on the line Ross you're the founder of Summed Up Maths how difficult was Maths Paper 1 last Friday no we don't have Ross there Ross are you with us No, we don't have Ross with us. We'll get Ross back up on the line.
And Denise is on the line, I understand, because Denise, you had a daughter who sat maths paper one on Friday. Is that correct?
Yeah, that's right. Yes. She was very upset after. In fact, she was very upset during it. She said when she read over the questions at the beginning of the paper or at the beginning of the exam, she actually burst out crying in the exam hall. She was so upset.
Chapter 2: How did one student react to the maths exam questions?
Oh, no. And I was saying, well, why was it that hard? And she said, well, I'd worked so hard. I studied so much. I've given up so much time to this at the expense of other subjects. And when I opened it, I looked at them and I didn't understand the questions. She said one of the questions was like reading an essay.
And once she'd read it, she didn't know what she was being asked to do, what they were looking for. She has put in hours and hours. I mean, she's sacrificed social life.
nights out family events she's just focused so hard on this and worked so hard and she's we've been paying for grinds on a saturday morning excellent math teacher giving her grinds and she gives her homework and she checks the homework and she's been doing really well she's been kind of doing past papers and averaging h1s and h2s on the markings and she feels like she didn't even pass the paper on friday
And why she was also so upset is she has had a conditional offer from Ulster University on condition that she gets a H2 in maths and biology. And she thinks she won't get that now. So she was really, really upset.
The other thing as well, just to say to you, she said that it was lucky it was the second exam of the day because had it been the first one, she said there was absolutely no way she could have gone in and done another exam after that because she was so upset.
It really knocked her off her stride, did it?
Oh, really did. She cried herself to sleep that night.
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Chapter 3: What sacrifices did students make in preparation for the maths exam?
Oh, no.
Yeah.
How was she today going in?
Much better this morning because she was just of the opinion this morning that, well, it can't be any worse than Friday. So she went in with that in mind. And I spoke to her after the exam and she said it went really well this morning.
Great. Yeah. Did she take any comfort from the fact that lots of people seem to be reporting the same thing, that this maths paper one was particularly tricky?
She did. She did. And she even said that in the room in her school where she was sitting the exam, there were a very small number of people in that room and there were only three of them taking the honours paper. And she said one of the girls just looked up over her and the two of them just were shaking their heads at each other like, what the hell is this?
And then they just carried on with the exam. But yes, and afterwards, she didn't talk to anyone afterwards.
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Chapter 4: What were the conditions for students' university offers?
She came straight home because she was too upset. And then she called me when she got home. But yeah, she has, I suppose, shaken comfort in other people. Other people have spoken about how difficult it was.
Yeah. Marie Jackman is on the line as well. Marie, you had a similar situation in your house with your son, is that right?
Yeah. Thanks, Ciarán. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, Ciarán, I picked him up after the exam and he was devastated. He just said, I'm not talking about it. I don't want to talk about it. And he had an awful experience. And I kind of felt, OK, maybe he froze because I hadn't been speaking to anyone else.
Chapter 5: How did parents feel about the exam's difficulty?
And if he had frozen at the exam, I would have accepted that because that does happen. But when I saw later, you know, sort of the commentary on it, I was absolutely livid that this should happen to a young fellow like this. and that he should come out feeling this way after an exam.
Similar to what the previous speaker said there, he had to try and interpret the English language before he could actually get to the maths part of the question. And it threw him completely. So I just don't know what sort of a person could put a paper like that together. I'd love to hear from the Department of Education
Because like these people, my son, like the previous caller there, he has worked so hard. He's been scoring so well. He's been doing the past papers as well. He's had grinds. We've paid out for grinds and I've no problem with that. I'm delighted to be able to support him. But he was just floored, absolutely floored. And it took the weekend.
Chapter 6: What challenges did students face during the exam?
He spent the weekend and we spent the weekend trying to bring him back up, you know.
And how was it today?
Like that. He had worked on himself to get his confidence back up and he was a good bit better. And the paper was much better today. But the problem, Ciarán, is this. You know, the people that set those papers have had years of experience. These kids are going in. They're 17, 18 and 19 years.
And when your confidence is not, it's not just not for the day, it's not for a while until you can build that back up. And that's not a good way to go in after the weekend into your second week of exams. So, you know, I'm not a person that gets on the radio and complains, but I felt very strong and I rang Lifeline this morning. I felt very strong that somebody needs to be answerable.
They can't do this. I have no problem answering.
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Chapter 7: How did the exam format affect students' performance?
with a challenging paper. I have no problem with a tough paper, but make it about math, not about English.
Yeah, you'd know I don't have someone doing the exams, because I was talking to someone at the weekend and they said this to me, oh, I just, you know, how did your daughter get on? And they said she found Matt's paper one awful, really, really awful. And I tried to almost shrug it off. I said, ask her if everyone found it awful. Sure, it's fine.
You know, there's still the same amount of A's and B's. It'll be grand. And what this dad said to me is, no, that's not the problem. The problem is she was really upset and it completely knocked her confidence.
Yes. That's the thing. That's the thing, Ciarán. That is the thing. The confidence is gone. What will it do to the rest of their exams? You know? I mean, we've been told that the Department of Education and the examiners and everyone, the correcting papers, they're there to help you, not to hinder you. This was a hindrance. This was a hindrance. And it happened.
I don't know, does it happen frequently? Because obviously we don't have children doing exams every year. But it did happen before. But it's not right. It's about an examination to test their knowledge of a subject, not to try and interpret something that's not meant to be. And I don't know if it's one person or a number of people that set the exam papers.
Somebody has to answer the question, why did they set an exam paper that would upset children so much?
We got on to the State Examinations Commission and they said an examination must provide opportunities for candidates across the achievement range to show what they know and understand and can do.
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Chapter 8: What criticism did parents have regarding the exam paper design?
And the preparation of the papers follows a rigorous design and development process to ensure they're prepared within the examination commission's principles, protocols and procedures and the development involves a multi-stage process of drafting, setting, translating and various layers of oversight and scrutiny.
So it would have got through the various layers of oversight and scrutiny, these questions. I mentioned Ross Kenny, who was on the line earlier. We couldn't hear you, Ross. Apologies for that from summed up maths. But what was it in particular that was tricky about this?
Well, there was two elements, really. First of all, as you were mentioning there, it was the English in the long questions, the section B. So that adds an extra level of complexity because you have to translate that English into maths. And, you know, it's like a reading comprehension. So that's quite challenging.
And then on top of that, there was just a load of niche bits and pieces spread out across the paper, you know, that hasn't been examined since even 2012. So that would have been kind of tough for students. It's kind of the fine print stuff that are in the textbooks, but just hasn't been asked in the world.
And the question of comprehension, of English comprehension, I mean, is that a fair criticism? Was there a lot of explaining in some of the questions as well?
Yeah, I mean, so it's the long questions, which are, you know, context and application. So you're using the same math, but there's just a paragraph at the start, basically, to give you some context. And then you go on and use the math. So this has been introduced with the new kind of leading surgeons back in 2014, 2015.
project math and they just kind of want to implement a lot more english so it used to be that you know they would just say differentiate this function integrate this function but now there's another bit there's another skill to these problems which is translating that english um and students with dyslexia in particular really struggle with those questions but everyone struggles with them as well um so yeah that's kind of the main thing the english in the questions
OK, and can you understand that the frustration of Denise and Marie and others who accept, you know, as I said, you know, sauce for a goose, a sauce for a gander, that it'd still be the same amount of A's and B's. But it's just that it knocks their confidence with other exams on the horizon.
I can actually relate to it as well, because I had a mile even in 2023. So that was the other year that there was kind of uproar.
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