Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello and welcome back to the Math Funny Podcast and part two of my interview with former producer Alex Fennell. If you haven't heard yesterday's part one yet, I would urge you to go do that before jumping in here. Otherwise, you just, well, you've missed half the chat basically.
Where we left off yesterday, I just asked her about the process of frank and grabbing, which most people just call massive editing fails and why they do this, why they chop sentences up and merge them together. And yeah, I'll just jump straight back in. So here we go, back to the conversation.
To get back to you as a producer, I want to bring up this topic, which always comes out in the media every year called Franken-biting.
It's actually called Franken-grabs. It annoys me when they say Franken-bites. We call them Franken-grabs.
Okay, so for the listeners of this who don't know what a frank and grab is, it's where you would essentially take maybe a few words from one sentence, a few words from a sentence a few days later of a participant, and you mash it all together to make a whole new sentence, which is often not what was said in the slightest.
That is not what my definition of it is, but the technical side is correct. Yes, it is.
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Chapter 2: What is Franken-biting and how does it affect reality TV editing?
Well, before we go, let me play a couple of examples of this. So take a listen to these.
I guess for me, when I said I wanted to leave, It was because I was scared.
No matter what happens tonight, I think it's important for me to let Carolina know how I'm feeling. So to me there, I can hear that. You can hear the different inflection in the words. It goes, I do not like this about... You can tell this is fake.
Yeah, well. But why did they do that?
Because to me, that feels like a sloppy, desperate attempt to say, okay, we have this storyline. We need to run with it. But they haven't said anything to keep that storyline going. So, fuck, do what you have to to just, like, it's not real.
half the time the participants talk in circles and riddles. It's so hard to get a clear sentence from them. Frank and grabbing isn't something that is unique to reality TV. That's something that exists in all TV shows, in all media, in all documentary.
Putting sentences together and cutting the shit in the middle and clarifying what somebody says is a technique as old as time in television, in movies. Secondly, Ideally, you don't want to be doing that. Ideally, the participants speak in a way that makes sense for the audience and to the story we're telling. Most of the time, a Frankengrab is used to clarify what somebody's trying to say.
They still said it. They've got the sentiment of what they're saying. Sometimes they're like, well, you know, it was like, you know, he was, you know, looking at me weird and, you know, I felt, like, pressured and, oh, I don't know, like... You saw him? Okay. So we know what that person's saying, but they didn't say it.
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Chapter 3: How do producers use Franken-grabs to shape narratives?
So what might happen is you'd find parts where they've said something that implies that. So we're always trying to just clarify what they're doing in terms of taking things completely out of context or saying things. I personally haven't ever used a Frank and grab for that. I can actually put hand on heart and say, I have never used a Frank and grab to make somebody say something that wasn't
aligned with what their sentiment was in that interview. Most of the time when somebody is being a dick or saying or being salacious, you see it coming out of their mouth. And that's what the audience ultimately knows. They're like, you can blame the edit and the frankens or whatever, but we saw you saying it. We saw you looking at her like that. We saw you saying it to her face.
And so I really do begrudge the whole it's a frankengrab thing.
So when someone comes out and says they blame the edit, I suppose what I'm realizing here talking to you is it's not as simple as them just going, that's out of context. Because their perception of blaming the edit might be because they will hear a frank and grab and they go, I didn't say that. But they don't realize that it was like they kind of did just not in those words.
you can get really hung up on being like, I didn't say that specific thing, but that's like straw man argument, right? Like just because you didn't say that specific thing does not then equal that none of this happened.
No, I love how you've not worked on maps for a couple of years now. And you're like, you're almost like defending it still. And I get that because it's your work. But I suppose me as a person watching this, I'm constantly, I almost side with our participants. I'm like, yeah, the fucking editors did them dirty. But then talking to you, it's like, no, this is the reason that looks like that.
And this sounds like that.
Well, I just don't think it's as salacious as people want it to be. That's the truth. And I'm not really defending maths because before I worked on maths, I was just an audience like everybody else. And I was really keen to get on the show because I loved it and I still love it. And I was wanting to see, you know, how much of it is the edit? How much of it is the manipulation?
How much of it is frank and grabs? You know, I had the same questions as everybody would. And I was interested when I realised that oh, sometimes it's just a practical reason and a really reasonable explanation for a lot of it. And that's what then started to get me worked up when people would always blame the edit. I'm like, no, most of the time.
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Chapter 4: What ethical considerations arise from using Franken-grabs in editing?
Oh, yeah. She did the 1,000 people in a day. But then two months before that, the UK version of her, Lily Phillips, she slept with 100 people in a day and made a documentary about it. Everyone was like, disgusting. How can she? So then Bonnie comes out, does 1,000. And you know what Lily did the day after Bonnie slept with 1,000? What? I was scrolling on Twitter.
She'd posted a selfie-style video walking through London at 5 a.m. Hey, guys, just on a come walk. Just, like, left the guy's house. And she had semen dripping down her face while walking down the street. And I was like, what is happening to the world? And, like, she posted it as in, like, this was the most normal thing ever.
Oh, yeah. The thousand people in a day thing really just is...
so bizarre to me it the whole that whole thing is bizarre but then I think maths is gonna like how do they keep getting more extreme and obviously we know most of these participants end up on OnlyFans which I've got no problem with like I who cares but then like at what point are they gonna bring that into the show and then I know at the minute they're trying to keep it somewhat family friendly because they want like family friendly advertisers like Woolworths and Coles and you know those ones who maybe don't want to be aligned with
adult content but for maths to keep evolving and reflecting society it's almost like I wouldn't be surprised next year if there's a storyline where a bride's caught filming porn with six different men while her husband's at the gym like you know because when she's like well I'm a creator he knew that you know that's my job you should be a maths producer if they do that exact storyline next year I want royalties
But we're getting sidetracked. I think before I wrap this, I just want to say, so the general perception from the public is maths producers are evil. They're horrible people. How do they sleep at night? How did you sleep at night?
I sleep so well.
And, like, the colleagues you work with are just normal, everyday people with a job? They're not, like, evil monsters?
No, I don't think so. We're just normal people. You know, I have worked on lots of different shows. I have a journalism background. I've worked on Neighbours, Home and Away, The Project, Sunrise, MasterChef. Your job is, as a journalist, as a producer, is to always... clarify a story, amplify a story and make it entertaining. That's always your job.
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Chapter 5: How do producers justify their editing choices to participants?
And this is just my story and my version of things. It doesn't even mean it's fact, you know.
And for anyone listening to this podcast as we wrap now, I think they should actually, I'm going to link your podcast, That Showbiz Baby, in the description. And like, if you're intrigued by the reality of the industry and what happens behind the scenes, definitely go and listen. I'm obsessed with it. It's actually fascinating to me. It's refreshing.
And I've never heard anyone kind of do what you and Jordy are doing and speak from that side of things.
thank you and i we're big fans of you which is why we've jordy gave me permission to speak to you thank you jordy and um thank you so much for your time today this has actually been a great chat and it's funny because i said i'm never going to do long episodes but i just haven't really wanted to wrap this because i found it so fascinating oh me too thank you josh
um well uh speak to you on the internet yeah have a great day thank you i don't know what you guys think but to me that whole interview was actually fascinating like i'm so intrigued by all of this stuff and just the process behind a show of this scale how it actually comes together
And I'm hoping to get another former producer on who did a few more seasons and worked in like a different department. So then if that goes ahead, I can ask them some of the questions you guys have been submitting because Alex couldn't really have answered a lot of them because that wasn't really in her department.
So I'm maybe trying to get, you know, someone from each department so we can cover every element of how this show is made. But yeah, I'm just working on that at the minute. But for now, thank you for listening and see you soon.
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