Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud. It's what women are talking about on Friday the 6th of March. I'm Holly Wainwright. I'm Claire Stephens. And I'm Em Burnham. Oh my god, I'm a bit nervous. She's back from the holiday. We became number one. When I was on holiday? Yeah. Yeah, but you know what?
You were on those shows that we became number one for, so I think you can claim that crown. Thank you so much. Claire, were you on those shows? I was here vibe-wise. You were, you were. I was here. I was, like, in the atmosphere. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. Yeah, which says a lot about me. I'm like, I feel like I'm often around success. Oh, shit.
Even if I'm not directly involved. Oh, my God. There is one thing that the Outlouders need to know from you, Emily Vernon. You've just been on holiday for pretty much a month.
yeah pretty much how many pairs of knickers did you take oh okay great great question I went overseas for 22 days so I took 32 pairs did you use all of them no because I didn't know I had access to a washing machine yeah I was gonna say I bet you had access yeah I like I don't think I would own 32 pairs of I didn't.
I think the day before I ran to Kmart in a panic and yeah, they don't have any stock anymore. Did you have to grab like, you know, when you get to the real bottom of the barrel with your undies and you're like, these have holes. I had a doctor's appointment recently in a very old pair of undies. You had to take an extra bag just for your underwear.
Out loud as if you're wondering why the hell we're talking about this. One of our most famous debates of recent times is how many pairs of underpants you pack when you're going away. Yeah, 32 is a bit too much. I will say that. I probably could run away with 20. There's two extremes here because Holly would have packed three. I would, yeah. I would have done.
I would have taken like maybe seven and then you just rotate and wash. Like anyway, we don't need to go back into that. Did you have a great time? I had the best, best time. I'm happy to be back, but oh my God, I love a holiday. We should all be on holiday all the time. I want a photo dump of your holiday on the Outlouders Instagram. That's a good idea. Like I need it to be more.
So everyone can see it. Like obviously on yours but also for the out loud. Yes, out louders want to see what Em did in India and so do I. Anyway, welcome back to our Friday show. Mate, there's a lot of news going on. You won't hear any of it here today so that's good. But here is what is on our agenda. I want to tell you about the internet's new favourite literal girl boss.
She is a 13-year-old skincare CEO. Plus, we used to be terrified of public speaking, but Gen Z are terrified of something much smaller. And our weekly recos, they consist of two podcasts and one very wild book. But first, Emily Vernon. In case you missed it, no one is wearing mascara anymore. I won't hear it. I won't have this. Okay, I need to rephrase. The cool kids aren't wearing mascara.
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Chapter 2: Why is mascara considered over in beauty trends?
But it is one of the quickest ways to get you out of a bubble. Like if you only ever talk to people who you know really well, you're much less likely to ever kind of understand anyone else's point of view, even in a tiny thing. I'm not suggesting you go in and you start going, so.
Iran like not that yeah not that but just you know all those tiny conversations you have with people you bump into like a more likely to show you that other people's experiences aren't yours you know what I mean yeah I feel like exactly what you said Claire it is a generation thing like I've noticed my parents are really good at small talk and I just kind of sit there and like listen in but I also think it's a culture thing I notice also Americans are really good at small talk yeah
Chapter 3: What is the ghost lashes trend and how does it affect beauty standards?
And I think that's because all of them do it. Like if you're sitting on a subway in New York, in America, everyone's talking to everyone and they're all strangers. However, if you were to sit in a train in Australia, a stranger would start to ask you questions. You know, everyone else is listening in on that conversations because it's so rare for it to happen. I think it depends.
I'm not sure that everyone on the subway in New York is talking to each other. They are more chatty. But it's not weird if they do. Americans have fewer boundaries. What I remember, it was a young person travelling in the States and I was an English person very much then before I lived in Australia, is like they would just ask really personal questions. Now I'm not advocating for that.
They had no boundary about jumping straight in with the whole like, so your situation, are you married, do you have children, like that. Americans are really good at that. I'm not advocating for that necessarily. It's just politeness, right? English people, talking about cultural stereotypes, we're very good at small talk but only in a very like, oh, how about that rain?
Like we're really good at that stuff, you know what I mean? I think you're right about generational. I think it's 100% true because do you remember, Claire, even when I first started working with you guys, I remember like Claire and Jessie when they came to work at Mamma Mia, they would freak out when you asked them how their weekend was in the kitchen. They're like, what do you want from me?
I'm like, I don't want anything from you. I'm just being polite. And I wouldn't do it either because I was just ā And I think generally I do this in life and I'm only becoming aware of how it comes across. I'm just in my own head. So when I turned up to work I'd be thinking, oh, what am I going to pitch? We've got stand-up. What am I going to write today?
And so I wasn't thinking of asking anybody else how they were and when somebody asked me I was shocked. But I think one thing I thought when I read this article was I wonder if one of the things contributing to this is is our kind of cultural conversation about what is offensive and what is not right to say to people and therefore we feel like there's less room for mistakes. Yeah.
And I think this in terms of small talk but also just in conversation with people you might not know that well is where we've got really strict boundaries.
I know that I've absorbed so much about what not to say to someone who's pregnant, what not to say to somebody who might be grieving, what not to say to somebody at work, and then you go to say something, you're so paralysed by the thought you might offend them that you don't say anything, and that's a million times worse, when the fact is...
Sometimes somebody can come up to you in public, like when you're bloody pregnant, people say all sorts of things and you don't really care. Like sometimes they'll say something quite like, oh, you're big. And then five seconds later, the conversation has changed. Like an inappropriate comment can lead to quite a meaningful interaction. You kind of have to be a bit more forgiving, I think.
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Chapter 4: Why is small talk becoming less common in public interactions?
Because we've talked about that before sometimes on the show, whether or not you should say, so what are you passionate about right now? What are you watching? Like I think those kind of fake small talk questions are really hard. I'd love to know if anyone's got an absolute solid deal breaker.
I actually saw in an Outlouders thread for icebreaker questions, one of them was what's the tiniest hill you'll die on? Oh, I love it. I love it. I love that. Oh, because it allows the person the opportunity to be funny. Yeah, and mean. We'll be a little mean sometimes. Yeah. In a moment, I'm going to introduce you to a 13-year-old CEO. Out louders, it's Mia and it's Friday.
How good are we feeling? I'm not often summoned by name, by an outlouder in a dilemma, but Vanessa, who is wondering whether she should give up her job to support her family, asked our advice and name-checked me as someone who she had in her head. And so I listened to everything that you had to say in the group. I listened to Amelia, Holly and Jessie's conversation on the show and
And I have some thoughts. I have some new thoughts. I have some possibly controversial thoughts. So Amelia and I did a whole subscriber episode where I have entered the Working Mother Chat. It's called Mia Enters the Working Mother Chat.
And if you want to listen to it right now and you're not already a subscriber, follow the link in the show notes to hear it immediately and get us in your ears five days a week. So there's a new super cool skincare brand sucking up a lot of attention online. And I'm telling you about it because its CEO is 13 years old.
It's not news that the target market for skincare has been getting younger and younger and younger. We've talked about it a few times. And there are many opinions about that, about whether we should be encouraging children to smear the late stage capitalism all over their faces, etc. But it was probably the next logical conclusion that there would be companies making skincare products
for kids fronted by kids. And so meet Coco Granderson. Here is a little snippet of Coco. I ended up damaging it with products that were way too harsh on my skin. That's when it hit me. I couldn't be the only one. Kids like us want skincare that actually works, but isn't harsh. Something gentle, fun, and actually made for us. So I thought, why not create it myself?
What started as just a dream turned into a real brand. I built school. I've taken meetings in my mom's car, between classes, friends, volleyball, and started building yesterday with my family. Right. Hearing her voice. I know. She's so little. So a quick explain. Granderson comes from a fancy LA family. Her dad's a Hollywood entertainment lawyer who represents people like A$AP Rocky, right?
Her mum was a clinical researcher before she had her three daughters. According to a profile in The Cut, Coco was on a plane.
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Chapter 5: How can small talk contribute to a happier life?
I think we can just leave what kind of plane that might have been. Because it just sounds like she was having more than small talk. It does, doesn't it? Coco was on a plane with a big businessman friend of her parents and talking about how someone should make a kid's skincare line that kids actually want to use.
And apparently the big businessman friend said, I want you to have some ideas by the time we land, right? Next minute, somehow Coco and the Grandersons are working with Ron Robinson, who's the cosmetic chemist who helped build Road for Hayley Bieber. So he's a very big deal. He's the guy you want If you're starting a skincare line next weekend, you want to get Ron on the phone.
If Coco can give me those details. Yeah, exactly. A brand was born and now 13-year-old Coco is a boss lady. Did you two read this profile of the latest beauty girl boss and what did you think about CEO teenagers? I'm completely obsessed. She is her mother's boss and their C-suite is the car. Yeah. Just her vibe is hilarious.
I mean I do want it said that it is a genius business move to have a 13-year-old as the face of this and all over the Instagram it's her and she's beautiful. That's no coincidence that she looks the way she does. But this is very much a puppeteer situation. Ron's the big dog, I reckon. I reckon Mum's the big dog. Yeah, Ron and Mum. Ron and Mum. I believed everything in this.
I read this and I immediately felt like a huge failure. No! No, I did. And it made me think. For not being born to those parents in LA. Not being on my private jet, making up business plans. I'm in that generation where like Gen Z, younger millennial, where half my friends are working for companies and the other half are doing their own thing.
And what's really annoying is that the half that are doing their own thing are really successful and are really good at it. And it's gotten to the stage where...
if I talk to someone under the age of 25, they're either working on their own brand and are like trying to move into that full time or in their head they're basically saying, and I had this conversation with a younger cousin of mine and he said, I'll work at this company for a year but then I have to do my own thing. Like you don't want to be staying in a company. Yeah.
So being an entrepreneur is now exceptionally aspirational, right, whereas I think it used to be a little bit like, oh, not very secure, not very safe, da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. But they don't actually know what they want to do. They just want to do their own thing and they'll eventually figure it out.
And I do feel a bit sad that I feel like we're going to get a whole generation of young people in the workforce not really experiencing the workforce. And I talk about Mamma Mia all the time and talk about how I made my best friends here. And I know with my friends who have moved to work on their own brands and have moved to freelance, the one thing they miss is like friendships.
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