What's behind the Anthropic-Pentagon feud?
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
When business ethics and the military's view on national security come into conflict. I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. The artificial intelligence company Anthropic is loosening some of its core safety principles. This at the same time the company faces pressure from the Pentagon to roll back limitations on how Anthropic's Claude AI models are used. Marketplace and Nancy Marshall-Genzer is here now with some details.
Well, David, Anthropic unveiled a new policy on safeguards earlier this week, and it's moved from self-imposed guardrails to non-binding goals for AI safety. In a blog post on Tuesday, the company said under its old policy, if Claude became capable of, say, helping build a weapon, Anthropic would adopt new, stricter safeguards, and it hoped other companies would do the same and governments would coordinate with it on this, and that just did not happen.
Now, there's also pressure from the administration on related matters.
What led to Anthropic loosening its AI safety principles?
What's the Pentagon's concern?
Well, there are reports that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has given Anthropic an ultimatum, and Hegseth wants the company to roll back its rules even more by tomorrow, or it could lose a Defense Department contract worth $200 million. The Pentagon doesn't want any constraints on AI use in weapons. For example, If it has just minutes to fire weapons and needs AI to do it, it doesn't want to have to ask Anthropic for permission first. But Anthropic wants to be sure Claude isn't used for things like government surveillance or autonomous weapons.
And Hegseth has other tools to pressure Anthropic via what, its business partners?
Axios is reporting the Defense Department could designate Anthropic as a supply chain risk. As a first step in that process, Axios says the Pentagon is asking major contractors if they use Claude. Secretary Hegseth could also impose the Defense Production Act to compel Anthropic to ease up even more on its rules.
Nancy Marshall-Genzer out of Washington. For the AI microchip maker NVIDIA, it was like winning an Oscar, a Grammy, an Emmy, and a Nobel Prize all at the same time, and then your audience says, all right, but what else you got? The company posted blockbuster quarterly profits late yesterday, with revenue up 73%, with predictions the next quarter should be higher than that. Yet, in pre-market trading now, NVIDIA's stock is up only a little. One puzzled analyst said, maybe investors are frozen with shock about how good things are over there. Alternate explanation, the realization that trees don't grow to the sky, that eventually there has to be some limit to the AI mania.
A landmark trial against Meta and YouTube is underway as the companies face evidence their platforms hurt children by damaging their mental health. This comes as lawmakers around the world are pushing new safety laws that could require users to verify their age by uploading maybe a government ID or submitting to a facial scan. But some digital rights advocates warn that done wrong, systems to make the online world safer for children could put sensitive private data in the wrong hands. We're joined now by Kian Vestenson. He's a senior researcher at Freedom House, a nonprofit focused on democracy and human rights. Welcome. Thanks for having me, David. Age verification for what we get access to online.
I mean, to keep younger people away from harmful or age-inappropriate content. You're not against that in itself.
That's right. Protecting children from the worst of the Internet is a pressing policy aim.
What pressure is the Pentagon applying on Anthropic regarding AI use?
There's plenty of evidence that children using social media platforms can face real harms. But the important thing here is that online anonymity has long been a key enabler for free expression, free speech, and access to online information. And we need to make sure that we protect it.
It's happened to me before. There was somebody tampering with one of my online accounts, and I think it was MetaFacebook asked me to take a picture of myself holding up my driver's license. That should have made me more nervous at the time.
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