Matt Brown Show - Conversations That Power The Business World.

MBS114 - Jonathan Kohler, CEO Landsdowne Properties

21 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textGrit. The difference between entrepreneurs who make it and those who don’t. This theme has been a consistent one of the last three yea...

MBS113 - Lauren Woolf, Founder Mrs Woolf

17 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIt is said that to live a creative life we just lose our fear of being wrong. As an entrepreneur it is about knowing where your blind sp...

MBS112 - Jeff Large - CEO, Come Alive Creative

17 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo just yesterday I was catching up on the Joe Rogan show and Jo was chatting to Gary V about podcasting. Jo shares my sentiments about ...

MBS111 - Leah McCrae, Founder Resonance

17 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textBullying in the workplace is a very real thing but as a community of business people we simply do not talk about this kind of thing enou...

MBS110 - Kat Woolf, The Property Woolf

08 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo today I want to tee up this episode of the show by talking to you about something called Stopforths Law. Stopforths law is named afte...

MBS109 - Natalie Laurencik & Lucy Phillips, Consilium Legal

08 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo, if you’re an entrepreneur running your own business at some point on your journey you will have a run in with the law. No, I’m n...

MBS108 - Secrets of Scale LIVE SHOW #4 - Tom Asacker, Howard Sackstein & Erik Kruger

13 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThis is the final instalment of the Secrets of Scale event series powered by Entrepreneur Magazine and the MESH Club.I'm probably m...

MBS107 - Secrets of Scale LIVE SHOW #3 - Vinny Lingham, Marnus Broodryk, Jason Goldberg, VuyoTofile

05 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textWelcome to the 3rd installment of Secrets of Scale featuring:- Vinny Lingham (CEO, Civic & Shark Tank Investor)- Marnus Broodryk (CE...

MBS106 - Secrets of Scale LIVE SHOW #2 - Clive Butkow, Benji Coetzee, Keet Van Zyl

29 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textLast night we kicked off the second instalment of the Secrets of Scale event series powered by Entrepreneur Magazine and the MESH Club.T...

MBS105 - Secrets of Scale LIVE SHOW #1 - Allon Raiz, Rich Mulholland & Howard Mann

25 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThe Secrets of Scale series of events are designed to help entrepreneurs understand the dynamics and challenges of scaling a business an...

MBS104 - Marnus Broodryk (Shark Tank Investor) & Erik Kruger (Founder Better Man)

22 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textwww.qkt.io/secretsofscaleThe most exciting and important stage of a businesses life is the beginning of the scaling process. You have yo...

MBS103 - LIVE SHOW - The Sales & Persuasion Masterclass (Gilan Gork & Mark Keating)

05 Apr 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHowzit guys. So, last night we hosted another sold out live show this time in conjunction with two of the most exciting people in busine...

MBS102 - Sam & Rob Paddock, Get Smarter

18 Mar 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThis edition of the Matt Brown Show is powered by Get Smarter.com. In 2008, at the tip of Africa, GetSmarter, is founded by brothers Sam...

MBS101 - Michael Jordaan, Venture Capitalist (Montegray Capital)

18 Mar 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textMichael Jordaan was the CEO to one of South Africa’s largest banks FNB with a customer base of nine million. With more than 20 years’...

MBS100 - The Centenary Show (Entrepreneur Magazine Interview)

08 Mar 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textJust a quick word to say thank you to Nadine Todd from Entrepreneur Magazine for taking the time out to conduct the centenary episode of...

MBS099 - LIVE SHOW - #CryptoKungfu, Tone Vays, Adam Meister & Lorien Gamaroff

08 Mar 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHowzit guys, so as the saying goes there is no business-like show business. Last night at #CryptoKungfu we put on a show which was broad...

MBS098 - Adam Meister, The Bitcoin Meister

05 Mar 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textAdam Meister is regarded as one of the worlds leading Bitcoin experts and his passion for BTC has lead him to travel to six continents i...

MBS097 - Joey Evans, From Paraplegic To Dakar [Sponsored by Entrepreneur Magazine]

19 Feb 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textAs entrepreneurs, we are typically working towards something – a vision of some kind – in most cases it is about obtaining more free...

MBS096 - Bob Skinstad - Partner, Knife Capital [Sponsored by Entrepreneur Magazine]

07 Feb 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHowzit guys, so as entrepreneurs and business leaders, being able to unlock growth is a key focus in what we do. Yet, many of us are see...

MBS095 - LIVE SHOW - #CryptoTraderZA (Ran Neu-Ner & Luke Martin)

17 Jan 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThis is the full version of the LIVE Matt Brown show held in January in Johannesburg. It was the biggest cryptocurrency event ever held ...

MBS094 - Pepe Marais & Gareth Leck, Joe Public [Sponsored by Entrepreneur Magazine]

09 Jan 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThere is an old saying that nothing worth having comes easy and the story of Gareth Leck and Pepe Marais is no different. The idea was t...

MBS093 - LIVE SHOW 0 #CryptoJHB, Blockchain/Bitcoin & Initial Coin Offerings (ICO's)

21 Dec 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo, turns out #CryptoJHB was a yet another sold out live show – and I’d like to just say thank you to everyone who has supported my ...

MBS092 - Mark Keating, CEO SALESGURU

07 Dec 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textWe all know that sales is the life blood of any business but the ability to make sales doesn’t come naturally to many of us. It’s ar...

MBS091 - LIVE SHOW - #CryptoCPT, Blockchain/Bitcoin & Initial Coin Offerings (ICO's)

06 Dec 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo, blockchain/bitcoin is seemingly a very hot subject right now in SA. #CryptoCPT was my third sold out live show in a row and this tim...

MBS090 - The Pivotal Group [Sponsored by Entrepreneur Magazine]

01 Dec 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textWhen Paul Hutton, Joel Stransky and Bruce Arnold launched Pivotal Group in 2012, they did so with a wealth of experience and business re...

MBS089 - Michael Van Straaten, CEO Verimark

26 Nov 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHey guys, so today I want to talk to you about Toys R Us. In 2012, they were a $12 billion company with a massive retail network of 1600...

MBS088 - Robin Olivier, CEO Digicape [Sponsored by Entrepreneur Magazine]

25 Oct 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textWe’ve seemingly heard it all before – you know, that classic rags to riches story of an entrepreneur who despite all the odds has bu...

MBS087 - Clive Butkow, Venture Capitilist & CEO Kalon Venture Partners

20 Oct 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo, yesterday I was giving a talk to a group of entrepreneurs from the entrepreneur’s organization. I was talking about the worlds Uni...

MBS086 - Jen Su - Pop Star, Master Networker & Socialite

13 Oct 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHey guys so today I want to talk to you about the power of having a personal brand. You know, when I started this podcast it was called ...

MBS085 - Ran Neu-Ner, Co-CEO The Creative Counsel & Host of Crypto Trader (CNBC Africa)

02 Oct 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThe ability to re-invent one’s self is arguably one of the most important qualities that anyone can have. With the world changing as q...

MBS084 - LIVE SHOW - PwC - People, Robots and The Future of Intelligent Automation

28 Sep 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSo, I have a question for you. Have you heard of disruptive technologies like robotics, artificial intelligence and 3D printing before?”...

MBS083 - Adi Zuk & Emma Du Preez, The Rapid Insights Team

22 Sep 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textResearch. This is arguably one of the most undervalued initiatives that any business can take but interestingly, it seems that research ...

MBS082 - Dawn Nathan-Jones, Founder Europcar / Entrepreneur / Shark Tank Host & Investor

05 Sep 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textOne of my goals for the year was to get all the investors from the hit TV series the Shark Tank onto the Matt Brown Show. It’s taken m...

MBS081 - LIVE SHOW - Cryptocurrencies, The Blockchain/Bitcoin & The Future of Money [Cape Town]

04 Sep 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIt’s not often that you sell out two events back-to-back in any industry but fortunately for the Matt Brown Show this is exactly what ...

MBS080 - Alex Simpson, CEO BeYourLegacy.com

29 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textValue systems. To a large extent they define your life whether you're an entrepreneur or not. You see, they govern how we make choi...

MBS079 - Sports Podium Initial Coin Offering (ICO)

29 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textInitial Coin Offerings (ICO's) represent a new way for entrepreneurs to fund their businesses. In this episode I chat to Rob and Ja...

MBS078 - Nick Argyos (CEO Injozi & Audio Militia) & Ciaran McKivergan (CEO, 8909)

12 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThe path of an entrepreneur can be pretty lonely at times and it's often difficult for people to understand exactly what you are go...

MBS077 - George Mienie, CEO Autotrader

12 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIt was 2007. The recession has not yet hit and markets were booming. Autotrader sold 108,000 copies of their print magazine but magazine...

MBS076 - Nick Dawson, Global Head of Knoxx Strategy (Samsung)

07 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThis episode is proudly sponsored by IT Web. Cyber security effects businesses of all sizes. Whether you are major corporate or you are ...

MBS075 - LIVE SHOW - Cryptocurrencies, The Blockchain/Bitcoin & The Future of Money [Joburg]

01 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textCryptocurrencies, The Blockchain/Bitcoin & The Future of Money. This subject is arguably one of the hottest subjects in the media ri...

MBS075 - LIVE SHOW - Cryptocurrencies, The Blockchain/Bitcoin & The Future of Money [Joburg]

01 Aug 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThis subject is arguably one of the hottest subjects in the media right now and for good reason. It promises so much – the least of wh...

MBS074 - Anish Shivdasani, Founder & CEO Giraffe

30 Jul 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textMindsets. An entrepreneur’s mindset – essentially a set of working assumptions about your intelligence, talent or abilities is criti...

MBS073 - Mike Sharman, CEO Retroviral Communications

02 Jul 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textStorytelling. It’s one of the biggest buzzwords in business—storytelling—and it’s how savvy companies are satisfying the public’...

MBS072 - Tom Asacker, Innovator, Best Selling Author & Provocateur

29 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textTom Asacker is the author of five critically acclaimed books: The Business of Belief, Opportunity Screams, A Little Less Conversation an...

MBS070 - Gil Oved (Co-CEO The Creative Council) & Romeo Kumalo (CEO Washrika Holdings)

26 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textCan entrepreneurs save South Africa's economy? That was the question I had to have answered when I interviewed Gil Oved, the co-CEO...

MBS069 - Mark Sham, CEO Suits & Sneakers

23 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textMark Sham comes back onto the Matt Brown Show for the second time to discuss the subject of change and how entrepreneurs can work with c...

MBS068 - EXCLUSIVE: Unicorns, Gazelles and Leapfrogs

15 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textElevation’s report ‘Unicorns, Gazelles & Leapfrogs: Fast-tracking the South African startup ecosystem' is being released to...

MBS067 - Howard Sackstein, CEO Saicom

11 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textFor a long time Matt has said that anyone can be an entrepreneur... but it's not for everyone. Today, Howard Sackstein is the CEO o...

MBS066 - Gilan Gork, The Mentalist

09 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textAs an entrepreneur, being able to influence people in order to get what you want has it's merits. But how do you go about working o...

MBS065 - Prudence Spratt, CEO Spratt Consulting

04 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textOne of the great mysteries of entrepreneurship is why businesses fail. Some people start one successful business after another while oth...

MBS064 - Benji Coetzee, Founder & CEO Empty Trips

04 Jun 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textStarting a business is hard and raising capital for your business can mean the difference between success and failure. In this episode I...

MBS063 - Brent Tollman, Entrepreneur & Media Strategist

27 May 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIf you can't sell yourself as an entrepreneur you are dead in the water. The most important aspect of selling anything is the abili...

MBS062 - Howard Mann, President Brickyard Partners

25 May 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHoward Mann is a business turnaround specialist. After 17 years of successfully enabling business owners with the means to unlock new va...

MBS061 - Ross Drakes, Entrepreneur & Owner Nicework

15 May 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to Ross Drakes about the realities of cashflow in a business, regardless of its size. Ross shares his tactics and tips for managi...

MBS060 - The Inside Man & The Future Of Banking

12 May 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to an "inside man" within the financial services industry about what the future of the banking industry might look like...

MBS059 - Craig Mullett - President Branison Group & Angel Investor

11 May 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to Craig Mullett, about how entrepreneurs should approach getting funding for their business. He is an angel investor and an expe...

MBS058 - Brad Shorkend, Behavioural Specialist and Entrepeneur

28 Apr 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to Brad Shorkend about how the role of leadership and consciousness is changing in the business world. We explore the dynamics be...

MBS057 - Rich Mulholland, CEO Missing Link

27 Apr 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThis is the new and rebranded version of the podcast! You are about to hear the process I went through that lead up to the launch of the...

DKS056 - Jedd Myers, COO Health Insite

30 Mar 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textJedd Myers is an entrepreneur but also an executive and entrepreneur health activist. He runs Health Insite, an innovative company that ...

DKS055- Brent "Spillly" Spilkin, CEO Growing Pains Business Consultancy

30 Mar 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSpillly came back on the show to talk about how the global freelance market is impacting the future of business. We also talk about why ...

DKS054 - Matsi Modise, Entrepreneurship Activist

28 Mar 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textMatsi Modise is an entrepreneur and Managing Director of Simodisa - an industry association who’s mission is to accelerate entrepreneu...

DKS053 - Rapelang Rabana, CEO Rekindle Learning

24 Mar 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIn this episode, I chat to one of Africa's powerhouse tech entrepreneurs. Featured on the cover of Forbes Africa magazine before th...

DKS052 - Ryan Sauer, CEO Punk Media

11 Mar 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textRyan Sauer is the CEO of Punk Media. In this episode we unpack the digital advertising space and discuss the future of the advertising a...

DKS051 - Anthony Stonefield, Serial Entrepreneur & Investor

11 Mar 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to the serial entrepreneur Anthony Stonefield, the inventor of the global mobile ringtone market, startup advisor and investorSup...

DKS050 - Standing On The Shoulders of Giants

19 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThe 50th edition of the Digital Kungfu Show is going to be a little different - in this episode I get interviewed by 27 CEO's and e...

DKS049 - Marnus Broodryk, CEO Bean Counter, Investor & Shark @ Shark Tank

14 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to Marnus Broodryk, the Shark at the Shark Tank, investor and entrepreneur about all things business, investing, morning routines...

DKS048 - Simon Dingle, Does Stuff

13 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to Simon Dingle about how corporates can approach innovation and engage with the startup community.Support the show

DKS047 - Mike Saunders, CEO DigitLab

10 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI speak to Mike Saunders AKA "Mr Social" - a prominent thought leader and opinion maker on social media and digital marketing....

DKS046 - John Sanei, Trend Specialist, Entrepreneur, Author

10 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to John Sanei, the entrepreneur, author and trend specialist about his up coming book, teacher plants, overcoming doubt and much,...

DKS045 - Steve Pinto, CEO New Reality

03 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textI chat to the serial entrepreneur Steve Pinto about the state of tech and startups in South Africa.Support the show

DKS044 - Chipo Moshwana, Strategic Manager at Alpha Code

02 Feb 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIn this episode I chat with Chipo Moshwana who is the Strategic Manager of Alpha Code. She lets us in on her journey.Support the show

DKS043 - The Soapbox #2 - The School of Disruption

14 Jan 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThe Digital Kungfu School of Disruption defines a disruption lead methodology to help entrepreneurs design and build startups. So what d...

DKS042 - Marco Broccardo, CEO ColonyHQ

04 Jan 2017

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textData driven marketing - in this episode I chat to Marco Broccardo the CEO of ColonyHQ, a company which is disrupting the traditional med...

DKS041 - Gordon Cook, Social Activist & Serial Entrepreneur

03 Dec 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to be more alive as an entrepreneur and achieve a peak performance state. In this episode, Gordon Cook shares his views on how entre...

DKS040 - Nick Argyos (CEO Injozi) & Ciaran Mckivergan (CEO 8909)

26 Nov 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to scale your business - I chat to Nick Argyos & Ciaran Mckivergan about how they have scaled their two digital agencies.Support...

DKS039 - Brent Spilkin, CEO Growing Pains Business Consultancy

18 Nov 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to grow your business - I chat to Brent Spilkin - one of South Africa's most highly regarded business coaches about the in&apos...

DKS038 - Rory Moore, Innovation Lead Accenture Digital

17 Nov 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to digitally transform your business - I speak with Rory Moore, one of SA's innovation pioneers about how to future proof busin...

DKS037 - Mike Wronski, CEO Digital Flow

10 Nov 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textSocial media analytics - Mike Wronski reveals how entrepreneurs should work with data to build their businesses.Support the show

DKS036 - Zach George, MD Startup Bootcamp & Barclays Tech Lab Africa

18 Oct 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textFrom startup to exit - how to build a successful startup. Zach George is an ex-Wall Street investment banker turned entrepreneur and who...

DKS035 - Mark Sham, Founder Suits & Sneakers

13 Oct 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textDisrupting the education system - Mark Sham is an entrepreneur who is living his purpose and his passion. He is on a mission to transfor...

DKS034 - The Soapbox #1 - How To Build A Successful Startup Culture

11 Oct 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textThe Soapbox - The format of this particular show is going to be a little different than what you have come to expect. I'm calling i...

DKS033 - Bruce Muzik, Entrepreneur & Relationship Consultant

10 Oct 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textManaging your relationships - How to succeed at business and your personal life. Bruce Muzik and I chat about what it takes to achieve y...

DKS032 - Vincent Magwenya, CEO Conversations

08 Oct 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to use PR in your business - I chat to Vincent Magwenya - the former communications strategist and spokesperson for the president of...

DKS031 - Jason Levin, Re-Founder HDI Youth Marketers

27 Sep 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to market to the youth (sometimes referred to as the millennials) - Jason Levin head of HDI youth marketing reveals the underlying d...

DKS030 - Scott Winship, Co-Founder Alpha Exchange

26 Sep 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textBarclays Accelerator Startups - The Alpha-Exchange is a New York based startup that is disrupting a $20 billion equity research market. ...

DKS029 - Andrew Smith, CEO Yuppiechef.com

23 Aug 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to build a successful eCommerce business - Andrew Smith is the founder of Yuppiechef one of South Africa's most loved ecommerce...

DKS028 - Nathan Stevenson, CEO Forward Lane Inc

20 Aug 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textInsights into Artificial Intelligence (AI)- AI is reshaping the business world as we know it. In this episode we explore how one startup...

DKS027 - Jim Harris, #1 International Best Selling Author - Disruptive Innovation

16 Jul 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow digital disruption is changing the business landscape. In this episode we unpack disruptive innovation with Jim Harris, one of North...

DKS026 - Rand Fishkin, CEO Moz Software

29 Jun 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to run one of the worlds most visible marketing companies - SEOMozSupport the show

DKS025 - Allon Raiz, CEO RaizCorp

26 Jun 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIn this episode we explore “the fear of failure” and how entrepreneurs can overcome it and ultimately succeed.Support the show

DKS024 - Kush Patel, CEO Tallysticks

08 Jun 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textBlockchain technology - Discover how one startup is unlocking a $1.3 trillion opportunity in the financial services industry with blockc...

DKS023 - Gareth Cliff, CEO CliffCentral.com

08 Jun 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to make a market - insights into building Africa's premier "infotainment" content platform.Support the show

DKS022 - Tim Hamilton, CEO Praxent Technologies Inc

03 Jun 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to build software that eats the world and insights into technology driven startups. Support the show

DKS021 - Garin Toren, CEO messageLOUD

20 May 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textDigital disruption and disruptive smartphone apps with Garin Toren.Support the show

DKS020 - Digital Kungfu Show - Live! Launch

04 May 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textWe are launching Digital Kungfu Live! Subscribe at www.digitalkungfu.co.zaSupport the show

DKS019 - Rich Mulholland, CEO Missing Link

29 Apr 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to make great pitch presentations. In this instalment we explore how to make great pitch presentations. Our guest today is the found...

DKS018 - Jason Xenopoulos, CEO Native VML

26 Apr 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textHow to build a great business culture. In this episode we explore the role of culture in startups. Our guest today is one of the pioneer...

DKS017 - Tricia Martinez, CEO Wala

26 Apr 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIn this episode we explore social entrepreneurship with the Founder and CEO of Wala, a community-powered digital banking platform for un...

DKS016 - Craig Elias, CEO And Author, Shift! & Trigger Event Selling™

14 Apr 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIn this episode, we unpack what it takes to be a force in business sales. Now as we all know, sales or the ability to make sales, is the...

DKS015 - Mike Abel, CEO M&C Saatchi Abel

07 Apr 2016

Contributed by Lukas

Send us a textIn today’s show we are going to explore how to build an advertising agency and an incredible entrepreneurial journey which we’ll cal...