National Pharmaceutical Congress (NPC) Podcast

S15 E08 The Inevitability of AI in Healthcare

22 Apr 2026

Contributed by Lukas

CEO of Toboggan Labs’ Florencia Herra Vega discusses AI compliance and innovation, applying AI to the whole team instead of individually, and useful...

S15 E07 The Importance of Commercial Product Pre-Launch

25 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Country Manager of Merz Therapeutics’ Mike Stone discusses commercial launches, the speed of mid-sized pharma, and rebranding DEI. Get full access t...

S15 E06 Healthcare Policy and the Medical Community

18 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Leverage’s Ian Howard discusses his time working in the public sector, treating illness versus promoting wellness, and the rise of cosmetic dermatol...

S15 E05 Assisting Better Health Outcomes in Pharma

04 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

National Director of Account Management of Sales of IQVIA’s Chris Hankey discusses biobanking, digital transformation, and better health outcomes fo...

S15 E04 Building Resilience into Patient Support Programs

25 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Director of Business Development of Bayshore Specialty Rx’s Shaminder Singh discusses patient support and care delivery, building adaptability and r...

S15 E03 Maintaining Commercial Excellence at EMD Serono

18 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Head of Canadian Commercial Operations and Strategic Advisor of EMD Serono’s Khalid Sabihuddin discusses translating complex analytics into actionab...

S15 E02 Mike Cloutier’s Leadership Journey

28 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Co-Chairman of BridgeBright Advisors’ Mike Cloutier discusses leadership at scale, leadership in the current political climate, and the hardware for...

S15 E01 What Keeps Pharma Companies Up At Night

21 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Pangaea Consultants’ Managing Director Jeff Martens discusses going from an operating role to consulting, lack of access in today’s political clim...

S14 E08 Seaford Pharmaceuticals’ Journey as a Family-owned Canadian Company

22 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Seaford President Tamara Seales discusses navigating Canadian pharma regulations, team-building, and weaving DEI into the fabric of the company. Get f...

S14 E07 Workplace Cultures Around the World in Big and Small Pharma

08 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Mike Exton, CEO and Board Director of Lexicon Pharmaceuticals, talks about safeguards and limits for AI, smaller pharma veresus big pharma, and brand ...

S14 E06 The Economics and Ethics of Life Sciences - With Gordon McCauley

13 Aug 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Gordon McCauley, CEO of adMare BioInnovations, unpacks the profits, principles, and policies shaping today’s life sci industry. Get full access to N...

S14 E05 Prioritizing Humility, Integrity and Curiosity in Leadership

06 Aug 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Casey James Lawton, General Manager at Peirre Fabre Dermo-Cosmetic, talks about diverse career experiences, learning to pivot, and building strong, sc...

S14 E04 Bringing Oncology Care to Canada with Daiichi Sankyo

30 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Fatih Yetikardes, Country Manager of Daiichi Sankyo, gives insights into advancing patient care with company collaborations, the unique complexities o...

S14 E03 Sobi Canada’s Bob McLay: Life Science Leadership in Rare Disease

17 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Bob McLay, General Manager of Sobi Canada, gives insights into stewarding rare drug therapies, KOL advocacy and the future of preventative medicine. G...

S14 E02 Developing Disease Modifying Therapeutics for ALS at Neuropeutics

10 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Marc Shenouda, CEO and Co-Founder of Neuropeutics Inc., gives insights into targeted therapeutics for neurodegenerative disease, winning the AbbVie Bi...

S14 E01 Dr. Bettina Hamelin and The Role of Innovative Medicines Canada

23 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Bettina Hamelin, President of Innovative Medicines Canada, gives insights into the adoption of innovative technologies, domestic supply chain for ...

S13 E08 Tariffs and the Effect on Canadian Pharma Companies

19 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Paul Levesque, President and CEO of Theratechnologies Inc., gives insights into innovation in biopharma, the effects of tariffs on supply chain and ph...

S13 E07 Serving Women’s Health in the Specialty Pharma Sector

12 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Mark Nawacki, President and CEO of Searchlight Pharma, gives insights into starting a specialty pharma business, therapeutics for women’s health and...

S13 E06 Innovation and Market Access in Pharma

05 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Lisa Mullett, Senior Vice-President of Sumitomo Pharma America, gives insights into the importance of diversity in companies and patient trials, stepp...

S13 E05 AI and the Importance of Data to Pharma Marketers

11 Dec 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Tom Slowe, CEO of Breadcrumb Analytics, gives insights into using AI to sort and sift through statistics, the importance of context with data, and why...

S13 E04 Eli Lilly’s Focus on Innovative Therapeutics

20 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Kenneth Custer, President and General Manager of Eli Lilly Canada, gives insights into his background in neuroscience, innovation in healthcare, and p...

S13 E03 Innovating Rare Disease Research

30 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Jonathan Soong, General Manager of Amicus Therapeutics, gives insights into being at the forefront of rare disease innovations, patient support progra...

S13 E02 Rodrigo Reis of UCB Pharma on Innovation in Pharma

16 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Rodrigo Reis, General Manager of UCB Pharma Canada, gives insights into fostering innovation in pharma, collaborating with UHN to expedite diagnoses, ...

S13 E01 Small Company, Seismic Impact: KYE Pharmaceuticals Redefines ADHD Treatment

02 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

John McKendry, President and CEO of KYE, gives insights into the importance of operating within regulations, leadership in pharma, and new treatment a...

S12 E08 Brian Bloom on the 2024 Healthcare Investing Landscape

29 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Brian Bloom, CEO of Bloom Burton & Co., gives insights into changes in the Canadian Healthcare investment landscape, the return of the generalist inve...

S12 E07 Supporting Patients with Rami Fayed of AbbVie

22 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Rami Fayed, Vice President and General Manager of Canada at AbbVie, gives insights into patient support programs in Canada, diversifying therapeutic p...

S12 E06 Pharmacists as a Hub for Healthcare Providers

15 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Jaclyn Katelnikof, Saskatchewan-based Pharmacist, gives insights into the patient-facing role of the pharmacist, the need for tech innovations in phar...

S12 E05 Women Empowering Women in Pharma

08 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Milva D’Aronco, Founding Member at Women Leaders in Pharma, gives insights into the importance of mentorship, coaching women on confidence, and dive...

S12 E04 Implementing AI for Rare Disease Patients

01 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Stephanie Veyrun-Manetti, General Manager of Specialty Care and Country Lead for Canada at Sanofi, gives insights into Sanofi’s Biogenius grants, th...

S12 E03 Crossing Cultures Through Higher Education in the Life Sciences

24 Apr 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Raj Dam, Assistant Director of Partnerships and External Relations at the University of Toronto, gives insights into co-op programs at University of T...

S12 E02 Patient Centric Approaches to Marketing

07 Feb 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Get full access to NPC Healthbiz Weekly at healthbiz.substack.com/subscribe

S12 E01 Developing and Empowering Black Talent

24 Jan 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Corinne Buchanan-Russell, Co-founder of Advancing Black Talent in Pharma, gives insights into the responsibility of leaders to foster diversity, the p...

S11 E08 Encouraging Women Leadership in Pharma

20 Dec 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Andrea Schwarz, Commercial Lead in Canada at BeiGene Canada, gives insights into launching a commercial team during the pandemic, being at a company t...

S11 E07 Improving Healthcare Access with Data Connectivity

22 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Dimitris Polygenis, President of Biopharma and Payer Solutions at McKesson Canada, gives insights using technology and AI to decrease prescribing and ...

S11 E06 From Biochemistry Bench to the Pharma Marketing Business

15 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Jennifer Wellman, Senior Marketing Manager of Emergent Biosolutions, gives insights into going from biochemistry to business and marketing, the benefi...

S11 E05 How to Manage Your Career: Aligning Personal and Career Goals

08 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Dave Cann, Senior Director of Business Development of Inizio Engage, gives insights into the ‘new beginning’ for Ashfield, harnessing the entrepre...

S11 E04 Fanny Sie of Roche on the Healthcare Benefits of Open Source AI and Collaboration

01 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Fanny Sie, Head of AI and Emerging Technology, External Collaboration, M&A Partnering of Roche Global Informatics, gives insights into going from clin...

S11 E03 The Evolving Pharma Landscape: How to Plan for Change

25 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Kevin Leshuk, President and CEO of Forus Therapeutics, gives insights into advancing blood cancer therapeutics in Canada, managing your own career, an...

S11 E02 Minding the Generational Gap in Pharma’s Workforce

18 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Paul Petrelli, General Manager of Jazz Pharmaceuticals, gives insights into workplace values of Generations X, Y, and Z, post-Covid leadership and wor...

S11 E01 Expanding 'Pill Hill': Attracting Pharma Investment in Mississauga

11 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Bonnie Crombie, Mayor of Mississauga, Ontario, give insights into the second largest life sciences sector in Canada, biotech programs at University of...

S10 E08 The Digital Transformation of Pharma

26 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Shanil Ebrahim, Partner and National Life Sciences and Healthcare Consulting Leader at Deloitte Canada, discusses improving healthcare literacy, expan...

S10 E07 Integrated Health and Market Access in Pharma

19 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Ben Parry and Sylvie Pilon, Directors at Pangaea Group, discuss the evolution of customer-facing roles, overcoming silos in integrated health, and onb...

S10 E06 The Advantage of a Diverse Therapeutic Pipeline

12 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Frank Stramaglia, GM of Astellas Pharma Canada Inc., discusses embracing technology and omni-channel marketing, employee engagement as a priority, and...

S10 E05 “It’s All About People”: Galderma’s Wendy Adams on Encouraging Collaboration

05 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Wendy Adams, GM of Galderma Canada Inc., discusses diversifying treatment portfolios, raising funds for kids with skin conditions, and encouraging col...

S10 E04 How the Pandemic Advanced the Profession of the Pharmacist

21 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Justin Bates, CEO of the Ontario Pharmacists Association, discusses starting his position just before Covid, shifting pharmacies to a service model, a...

S10 E03 Life Sci Investing in 2023: Keeping Ahead of Trends with Brian Bloom

14 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Brian Bloom, CEO of Bloom Burton & Co., discusses the Canadian investing landscape for pharma companies, tech trends in the healthcare industry, and e...

S10 E02 Creating a Workplace Culture That Supports Success: Lessons for Pharmaceutical Leaders

07 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Ann Gomez, President and Founder of Clear Concept Inc., offers insights into work-life balance, maximizing productivity, and the value of routines. Ge...

S10 E01 Roche’s Brigitte Nolet on Patient Centred Care: “Nothing for Patients Without Patients”

31 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Brigitte Nolet, President and CEO of Roche Canada, talks about empathetic leadership, precision medicine, and workplace culture. Get full access to NP...

S09 E08 Artificial Intelligence and Emerging Trends in Healthcare

12 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Anastasia Lit, Co-founder of TechPharus, talks about using AI to enhance medical care and research, the rapid development of software and AI technolog...

S09 E07 Sustainability, Accessibility, and Optimal Patient Outcomes

05 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Pamela Fralick, President of Innovative Medicines Canada, talks about innovative funding models, working with all levels of the Canadian government, a...

S09 E06 Current Legal Issues and Challenges in Canada’s Healthcare Sector

08 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Eileen McMahon, Chair of Intellectual Property and Food and Drug Regulatory Practices at Torys LLP, talks about strategic budgeting, the value of inte...

S09 E05 Developing Multi-channel Strategies for Pharma’s Emerging Digital Age

01 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Tamer Yacoub Hanna, Multi-Channel Engagement Manager at AbbVie, talks about utilizing your unique experiences to develop your career, ensuring the eth...

S09 E04 The Importance of Diversity and Using Race-Based Data in Care

22 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Kwadwo Kyeremanteng, Department Head of the Critical Care Unit at the Ottawa Hospital, talks about the value of implementing new technologies, exp...

S09 E03 Building a Work Culture of Empowerment and Support

15 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Karl Frank, Managing Director at Bayshore HealthCare, talks about empowering leaders in the workforce, maintaining community in a digital culture, and...

S09 E02 Tying Marketing, Communications, and Healthcare Together

08 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Arnaud Lavenue, Senior Partner at Toc Toc Communications, talks about overcoming challenges, combining your passions through education, and being indu...

S09 E01 Making Connections and Raising the Bar for Pharma

01 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Danielle Portnik, Regional Business Director, International at Ambry Genetics, talks about genetics and personalized medicine, building community, and...

S08 E08 Implementing Business Practices That Are Just and Fair For All

23 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Angelina Brathwaite, Senior Client Partner, Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging Leader for the Americas at Brunel, talks about women leadership in the ...

S08 E07 Carol Stiff on Leadership

16 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Carol Stiff, General Manager of Rhythm Pharmaceuticals Canada, talks about creating an inclusive company culture, small gestures of inclusion in the w...

S08 E06 Patient Advocacy Through Lived Experience

09 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Zal Press, Founder and Executive Director of Patient Commando, talks about patient representation, the empowerment of patients through virtual tools, ...

S08 E05 Advancing Tech in the Life Sciences and Consulting

02 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Mark Smithyes, President of Janus Life Sciences Consulting, talks about balancing in-person meetings with virtual calls, how a background in political...

S08 E04 Emerging Science and Tech Trends in Pharma

26 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Ross Glover, General Manager of Taiho Pharma Canada, talks about launching a drug during Covid, whether a science or business degree is best for enter...

S08 E03 Meet the Panelists of the 16th Annual NPC

19 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This episode reviews interviews with panelists in the upcoming 16th Annual National Pharmaceutical Congress on November 2nd, 2022. Hear valuable insig...

S08 E02 Patient Adherence and Data

12 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Greg Patey, CEO of Blue Charm Adherence Inc., talks about patient adherence programs, helping patients access medicine, and IT startups in Atlanti...

S08 E01 The Post-Covid Workplace

05 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Perry McLean, Head of Operational Excellence at GSK, talks about GSK’s new Canadian headquarters, embracing a hybrid working model, and the importan...

S07 E08 The Importance of Transferable Skills in Pharma

29 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Michael Stone, General Manager for Canada of Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals, talks about taking on a leadership role during the pandemic, attracting you...

S07 E07 Attracting Talent with Company Culture

22 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Steve Saviuk, CEO of Valeo Pharma, talks about returning to in-person workplace interactions, family roots influencing company culture and standing ou...

S07 E06 Pharmaceutical Licensing and Marketing

15 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Jody Engel, Canada Country Lead at Knight Therapeutics, talks about company cultures, women leadership in pharma and attracting talent during the pand...

S07 E05 The Evolution of Drug Advertising

25 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

James Cran, Founder and CEO of Pharma Consultants Inc., talks about the evolution of pharma marketing, the consumerization of healthcare and leading b...

S07 E04 Staying Agile and Responsive During Covid-19

18 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Jim Hall, Senior Vice President and General Manager at Covis Pharma, talks about teaching online classes, keeping employees focused during the pandemi...

S07 E03 Pharma’s Supply Chain Distribution

11 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Angelique Berg, President and CEO of the Canadian Association for Pharmacy Distribution Management, talks about advancing technology, sharing data amo...

S07 E02 Leading a Small Pharma Business Through Covid-19

04 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Joan Chypyha, Founder and CEO of Alto Pharmaceuticals, talks about her career journey in pharma, the agility of a small pharma company and life lesson...

S07 E01 The Healthcare and Biotech Landscape in 2022

27 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Brian Bloom, CEO of Bloom Burton & Co., talks about the digitization of healthcare, drawing venture capital to Canada, and the annual Bloom Burton con...

S06 E08 Corporate Culture in Pharma

23 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Pat Forsythe, General Manager of Eisai Inc., talks about virtual work practices, the importance of real world evidence, and learning from differing wo...

S06 E07 Dealing with Dual Health Crises

16 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

David Renwick, General Manager of Emergent Biosolutions, talks about how his time as a consultant affected his career journey, how the pandemic change...

S06 E06 Family Business in Pharma

09 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Michel Lavoie, President of Dermtek Pharma, talks about growing up and into the family business, the pandemic’s affect on therapeutic skin care prod...

S06 E05 Prioritizing Patient-centricity in Leadership Positions

02 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sandra Heller, General Manager of Seagen Canada, talks about taking on the role of GM at the beginning of a pandemic, the culture of oncology, and tak...

S06 E04 The Role of Nurses in the Healthcare System

26 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Cathy Harley, CEO of (Nurses Specialized in Wound, Ostomy and Continence) NSWOC, talks about social determinants of health, diversity in healthcare, a...

S06 E03 Understanding the Cancer Patient Journey

19 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Danny Goldman, Head of Strategy and Portfolio Operations of Sanofi Genzyme Canada, talks about his unique perspective to the patient journey, the need...

S06 E02 From Bench to Boardroom

12 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Ted Witek of the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at the University of Toronto talks about his career journey from scientist to senior managemen...

S06 E01 Rolling Out the Covid Vaccines: One Year Later

22 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

The Co-Chair of Canada’s Vaccine Task Force, Mark Lievonen, talks about the vaccine rollout in Canada, the role of booster shots and the federal gov...

The Evolution of Pharma Leadership

15 Sep 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the bonus episode of the NPC Podcast, guest host Tiana DiMichele talks with Ed Gudaitis, President & CEO of Acerus Pharma, and Janine Pajot, VP Hum...

S05 E08 Combating Covid-19 Vaccine Hesitancy

08 Sep 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the eighth and final episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Ken Chan, VP Admin at Brock University, about his time in the ...

S05 E07 How Covid-19 Disrupted Cancer Patient Care

01 Sep 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the seventh episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Martine Elias, Executive Director of Myeloma Canada, about how the pand...

S05 E06 Preventative Measures for the Pharmaceutical Production Line

25 Aug 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the sixth episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Tracy Clinch, Founder & CEO of Masitek Instruments Inc., about her busine...

S05 E05 The Post-Pandemic Life Sciences Landscape

18 Aug 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the fifth episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Dr. Jason Field, President & CEO of Life Sciences Ontario, about vaccine ...

S05 E04 The Emerging Role of Medical Cannabis

11 Aug 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the fourth episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Dr. Blake Pearson, founder of Greenly Health and Pearson Health, about e...

S05 E03 The View From Bay Street: Life Sciences Investing in 2021

04 Aug 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the third episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Brian Bloom, Chairman & CEO of Bloom Burton & Co., about the investment c...

S05 E02 Keeping It Legal: A Look at Life Sciences Laws and Regulations

28 Jul 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the second episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Adrienne Blanchard, Founder of Blanchard Law, about the differences betw...

S05 E01 Clinical Trials and CNS Research in Canada

21 Jul 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the first episode of our fifth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Dr. Angela Genge, Executive Director of the Clinical Research Unit at the...

S04 E08 Pharma's Future in the Post-Covid World

16 Jun 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the eighth and final episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Ronnie Miller, President and CEO of Roche Canada, about struc...

S04 E07 The Role of Medical Affairs

09 Jun 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the seventh episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Dr. Len Walt, VP Medical at SSI Strategy, about the role of the medica...

S04 E06 Cancer Research and the Impact on Patient Care

02 Jun 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the sixth episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Brigitte Sonier-Ferguson, Acting CEO of the Atlantic Cancer Research Ins...

S04 E05 Bringing Rare Disease Therapies into Canada

26 May 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the fifth episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Bob McLay, Vice President and General Manager of Sobi Canada, about deve...

S04 E04 Building a Sustainable Life Sciences Sector in Canada

18 May 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the fourth episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Gordon McCauley, President and CEO of adMare BioInnovations in Vancouve...

S04 E03 Reflections on the Consultant's Role

11 May 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the third episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Myka Osinchuk, Managing Director of Western Management Consultants, abou...

S04 E02 Venture Capital for the Life Sciences

05 May 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the second episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Brenda Irwin, Founder and Managing Partner of the Relentless Venture Fu...

S04 E01 Bringing Anti-Cancer Therapies into Canada

27 Apr 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the first episode of our fourth season, our host Peter Brenders talks with Josh Neiman, Senior Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer for Nort...

S03 E08 The Future of Life Sci Innovation in Canada

24 Mar 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the eighth and final episode of our third season, Host Peter Brenders talks with Sheryl Groeneweg, Director General of the Manufacturing and Life S...

S03 E07 Closing the Gap in Indigenous Health

17 Mar 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the seventh episode of our third season, Peter Brenders talks with Dr. Rachel Asiniwasis, about her dermatological work servicing rural and remote ...

S03 E06 Managing Change and Risk During Covid-19

10 Mar 2021

Contributed by Lukas

In the sixth episode of our third season, Peter Brenders talks with Paul Petrelli, General Manager of Jazz Pharmaceuticals, about creating value with ...