Not Another Dog and Pony Show
Episodes
Kim Brophey: Welfare of dogs in captivity
10 Apr 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Where Matthias sits down with Kim Brophey (unfortunately without Lauren) to talk about why many discussions on methodology seem to miss the mark, how ...
What makes a great animal trainer?
27 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about what makes a great trainer, if someone needs to be a good trainer to be a teacher of trainers, and being the...
Ken Ramirez: Opening dialogue about aversives in training
30 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Ken Ramirez to talk about approximating people towards behaviour change, minimizing membership extremism in your organization, ...
Jeff 'Mr. Mic Drop' Silverman: Enshitification in animal training
04 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Jeff Silverman to talk about if Enshitification is coming to animal training, AI-proofing your animal training business, and ho...
Pat Stuart: The punishment word
20 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Pat Stuart to talk providing clarity via consequences, where Pat and Lauren differ in who they will teach about the use of aver...
Dr Nita Hynes: Why some animals need a training/behaviour team, not a lone expert
06 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with veterinary behaviour resident Dr Nita Hynes to talk about veterinary behaviourist/trainer/behaviour consultant collabs, challen...
'Ah Ha!' moments that changed everything
19 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about pivotal learning moments in our careers that changed everything for us: play as reinforcer/steam-letter-off-e...
Sarah Stremming: About that yoghurt...
22 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Sarah Stremming to talk about her thoughts on that yoghurt episode, 'self-operating' vs managed animals, and ensuring t...
The great yoghurt debate of 2025
03 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about Lauren's recent approach to changing her dog's behaviour, how our biases affect our categorisation of...
Noche Miller: A rancher's perspective on R+ and animal training
14 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where I (Lauren) sat down with Noche Miller to talk about her perspective as a rancher on training animals, the use of positive reinforcement with liv...
Sunk cost fallacy
26 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about the concept of sunk cost fallacy, how it might affect us as training and behaviour professionals, and how not...
Mistakes were made
22 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about some of the mistakes we've made with horses and dogs, Lauren's secret to having hair that people will...
Erin Lynes: Fetch, the other F word
06 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Erin Lynes to talk about that Fetch post making the social media rounds, how many Labradors are too many, and what "fetch&...
Nothing much happens
20 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about our echo chambers, avoiding self-radicalization, and what we both find reinforcing on social media posts.Also...
Erika Stark: Issues with/benefits of AI in our industry
04 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Erika Percival Stark to talk about concerns with AI, how we might use AI ethically to do our metaphorical laundry, and where we...
Season One: That's a wrap!
03 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down together to talk about our first season as people who podcast, Lauren's scepticism of chia seeds, and whether we are as 'balanced' i...
Kim Brophey: Rethink animal welfare & training
06 Dec 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Kim Brophey for an edifying discussion about what we should consider when talking about the welfare, well-being, and best inter...
Sarah Dixon: A harm reduction approach to animal training
22 Nov 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Sarah Dixon for a frank discussion about a harm-reduction approach to animal training, why our reinforcement-minded messaging ...
Jeff Silverman: Our clients are not our Mini Me's
05 Nov 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Jeff Silverman for a discussion about the benefits of allowing the owner to be the main decision maker in the owner-trainer bus...
Dr David Lane: Why is transient stress OK in vet care but not training?
24 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down in a cheap motel room with Dr David Lane for a discussion about some differences in how we approach animals for veterinary care and ...
Dr Sam Couper: How many research papers does a fact make?
06 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Dr Sam Couper for a discussion about what science is (and isn't), and how research about training and behaviour may (or may not...
Kristi Walker: The painful path of acknowledging, and fixing, our mistakes
04 Sep 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with dog trainer Kristi Walker for a frank discussion about her personal journey in moving away from using harsh training, led by ex...
Verena Sutherland: Stages of being an R+ crossover trainer
13 Aug 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with Verena Sutherland for a discussion about her journey through the stages of being a crossover trainer, the pain of changing your...
Sarah Stremming: Training for/competing with animals in sport & our values
29 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down once again with Sarah Stremming for a timely talk about recent events in the Olympic horse world, the harms of subjective judging in...
If we can't give animals choice and control; what then?
23 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down for a discussion about what happens if/when we can't give animals choice and control, minimizing behavioural injury, and the rol...
Lecture-based vs hands-on learning
11 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down for a discussion about the efficacy of lecture-based versus hands-on learning, the importance of real-world, practical experience, a...
Ruth Crisler: intrusiveness, ethics, and efficacy in training
17 Jun 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down with the rational Ruth Crisler for a discussion about the ethical considerations and practical applications of aversives in animal t...
Leadership: helpful or harmful construct for the animals we train?
03 Jun 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where Matthias and Lauren discuss the concept - and helpfulness - of leadership and deference in animal training. Also, they explore the complexities ...
Chad Mackin: (under-utilized) leash communication
21 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where Matthias sits down (sadly, without Lauren) with the philosophical Chad Mackin to talk about leash communication. Also, the importance of escap...
Monique Feyrecilde: knowing your (animal training) audience
07 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where Lauren sits down (sadly, without Matthias) to talk with the cooperative care maven Monique Feyrecilde, about knowing your audience - whether dog...
Suzanne Clothier: relationship- vs. quadrant-based assessment of training
23 Apr 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we sit down for a few metaphorical and metaphysical beers with the icon Suzanne Clothier, and talk about how we view - and qualify - our relatio...
Animal-owning guilt, hedonic adaptation & bucking broncs
09 Apr 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we lay Matthias down on the therapy couch and take a bit of a wild ride to talk about what he sees as the inherent selfishness of animal ownersh...
Management fails. Shit happens. Should we hide this on social media?
25 Mar 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we talk about the animal training and behaviour video content we put out on social media: is showing our 'mistakes' or less-than-perfect...
Talking punishment with guest Sarah Stremming
12 Mar 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we talk with our first-ever guest, the lovely Sarah Stremming about using punishment - effectively and humanely - during dog or horse training. ...
Pitfalls with using R+ to train dogs & horses
29 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we talk about under-discussed pitfalls that can occur when (poorly? inappropriately?) using positive reinforcement (R+) to train dogs and horses...
Episode Three: Trolley problem problems
21 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we talk about what Lauren awkwardly calls a 'trolley problem problem' in our industry: a situation where whether you pull one lever or t...
Episode Two: Using pressure (R-) to train
02 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where we talk about the use of pressure to teach horses and dogs, issues within our industry related to pressure-based training, and how Lauren feels ...
Episode One: The origin story
25 Jan 2024
Contributed by Lukas
Where you meet your hosts, animal behaviour and training professionals Lauren and Matthias, and hear them talk about why they wanted to start a podcas...