On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Jordan Peterson: 5 Ways to Shift Envy into Growth & How to Recognize and Pursue Your True Calling
Mon, 25 Nov 2024
What triggers envy for you? How do you turn envy into action? Today, in this eye-opening episode, Jay Jay sits down with the legendary Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, a psychologist, educator, and bestselling author. This conversation has been in the making for years, and it’s packed with deep insights on human development, identity, and how ancient wisdom ties into today’s challenges. One of the standout moments is when Jordan talks about his upcoming book, We Who Wrestle With God. He takes listeners through the timeless stories of the Old Testament, explaining how they provide profound lessons on values, integrity, and personal growth. He also talks about the importance of always telling the truth and viewing life as an exploration of what’s possible. Jay and Jordan discuss how easy it is for people to get trapped in “false adventures”—chasing immediate gratification or quick fixes that ultimately don’t fulfill. Jordan reminds us that real growth involves shedding old parts of ourselves to move forward and align with bigger, long-term goals. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Build a Life of Integrity How to Turn Failure into Learning Opportunities How to Stay True to Long-Term Goals How to Practice Gratitude Daily How to Recognize and Avoid Short-Sighted Decisions How to Align Your Actions with Your Purpose How to Balance Ambition and Ethical Living This conversation highlights the power of facing challenges, learning from experiences, and staying aligned with long-term goals. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 1:24 How Technology Exacerbates Manipulation 08:13 Escaping A Limited Reality 09:41 Addressing Problems At The Root 13:55 The Effectiveness of Psychotherapy on Psychopaths 18:17 The Mindset of Predatory Psychopaths 21:03 Tips for Women to Protect Themselves from Manipulative People 24:16 PTSD And Its Impact 27:17 How Stories Shape Our Identity 37:06 Why Self-Consciousness Leads to Misery 40:03 The Difference Between Seeing and Thinking 47:54 The Importance of Long-Term Vision 52:56 The Dangers of Envy 55:28 Strategies to Overcome Envy 59:57 The Role of Pride and Arrogance in Personal Growth 01:05:14 The Art of Understanding Through Listening 01:09:04 Avoiding the Weaponization of Truth 01:10:45 How Short-Term Gratification Derails Progress 01:13:11 Setting Standards With Encouragement 01:16:31 Sources Of Hope Today 01:26:02 Jordan On Final 5 Episode Resources: Dr. Jordan B. Peterson | Website Dr. Jordan B. Peterson | YouTube Dr. Jordan B. Peterson | Instagram Dr. Jordan B. Peterson | Facebook Dr. Jordan B. Peterson | TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What triggers envy for you?
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Chapter 2: How can you turn envy into action?
I don't know. I don't know how you do that. I mean, I think part of that might be realizing that that is happening. You know, it'd be useful for people to familiarize themselves with the symptoms of what's called cluster B psychopathology, borderline personality disorder, narcissism, psychopathy, antisocial personality, histrionic personality, to know who those people are.
And to start to become aware of that. I think that's actually harder for people on the left. And the reason for that, I believe, is that Agreeableness tilts people towards the radical left because agreeable people are highly empathic and they tend to think of anyone who's suffering as a victim.
The problem with that attitude is that it doesn't arm you very well with an understanding of evil because truly malevolent people camouflage themselves as victims and they take advantage of the empathic. And that's a big problem, because the last thing you want to do if you're truly empathic is enable the sadists, right? And there's no shortage of that.
We know, for example, there's a developing psychological literature that shows that the active anonymous troll types are much more likely to be characterized by dark tetrad traits. Is there a way that we can...
affect that at more of a root level so that those aren't created in the first place?
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Chapter 3: What is the importance of long-term vision?
Well, I think that one of the things that social media operators should do is they should separate the anonymous accounts from the verified accounts. So, for example, I would like to see it on Twitter where the verified accounts, you see their comments, and then there's a hidden space underneath, which is anonymous accounts.
And if you wanna click on that and look through what the troll demons have to say, you can. It's a little trip to hell. You're not required to do it. And they're separated from the people who will stake their reputation on their words, which is what you do when you genuinely identify yourself. Now the anonymous types like to say,
well, you know, anonymity is necessary because in a tyrannical state, only the anonymous can tell the truth. And my experience with that is that for every one in 10,000 people brave, anonymous whistleblowers. There's 9,999 sadistic Machiavellians.
Chapter 4: What strategies can help overcome envy?
Chapter 5: How can storytelling shape our identity?
I'm looking forward to it, yeah, and I appreciate the invitation.
I feel so many people today, I'm sure you hear this a lot as well, they feel that they're surrounded by toxicity, whether it's at home, whether it's at work, whether it's online. They feel like they're in a space where they can't become more, at least from their perspective.
Well, I think some of that's actually a technical problem, and I think it's an extremely serious problem in our society. So we've... invented these new communication technologies, which we're utilizing now. The long-form discussions seem to be pretty radically on the positive side of that, I would say.
But the discourse on places like Twitter, Facebook, in comment sections and so forth, is pretty degenerate. And I think the reason for that is that the evolved mechanisms that we use in face-to-face real-world discourse have been stripped away in the electronic domain. And the problem with that is twofold.
The first problem is the exploitative, sadistic psychopaths have free reign because they're not held responsible for their utterances. They're anonymous. They get rewarded for the propagation of their emotionally arousing material. The algorithms will capitalize on it. And that's a very toxic combination.
And then the anonymity as well, like we know perfectly well from a vast array of psychological experiences that normal people anonymized are much more likely to let the negative part of their character have free reign. And so I really see this as a technical problem is that Societies and psyches are always threatened by what they call the dark tetrad personality proclivities. Narcissism.
Machiavellianism, psychopathy, that's parasitical predatory, a parasitical predator is a psychopath, and sadism. And you have those impulses within you, and there are people who are primarily characterized by those motivations. We have evolved mechanisms for keeping that under control, but they're all dispensed within social media.
And so what seems to be happening is the dark tetrad types are hijacking the political discourse on the right and the left, polarizing and dividing and capitalizing on that. And it's catastrophic socially and psychologically, but they benefit from the ensuing chaos by attracting attention to themselves in a manner that's undeserved and counterproductive.
I think the danger in that is sufficient that it's civilization threatening. I mean, we can't underestimate the power of these electronically mediated communication networks. They're insanely powerful and they amplify people to a degree that's almost unimaginable. And so the manipulators and the bad actors have disproportionate influence.
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Chapter 6: How do we balance ambition and ethical living?
Chapter 7: What role does self-consciousness play in our happiness?
Chapter 8: How do we recognize and avoid short-sighted decisions?
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To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to let go of? What do I have to transform? That can be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from.
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