Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Jon Kabat-Zinn on Why You Can’t Heal What You Won’t Feel | EP 619
Tue, 03 Jun 2025
In this powerful episode of Passion Struck, I'm joined by world-renowned mindfulness pioneer Jon Kabat-Zinn, founder of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) and author of Full Catastrophe Living and Wherever You Go, There You Are.We dive deep into the essence of mindfulness—not as a buzzword, but as a radical invitation to fully feel our lives. Jon unpacks why true healing requires presence, why you can’t bypass your emotions, and how mindfulness isn’t about relaxing—it’s about awakening.show up.Click HERE for the full show notesExplore More: The Ignited Life NewsletterIf today’s episode sparked something in you, you’ll love The Ignited Life—our free Substack newsletter created to fuel your growth between episodes.👉 Subscribe now at TheIgnitedLife.net.Catch more of Jon Kabat-Zinn: https://jonkabat-zinn.com/We also explore:The misunderstood purpose of meditationHow to work with pain, fear, and overwhelmThe dangers of spiritual bypassingWhy being present is the most courageous act of our timeThe biological roots of connection, compassion, and consciousnessIf you liked the show, please leave us a review—it only takes a moment and helps us reach more people! Don’t forget to include your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally.How to Connect with John:Connect with John on Twitter at @John_RMilesFollow him on Instagram at @John_R_MilesSubscribe to our main YouTube Channel and to our YouTube Clips ChannelFor more insights and resources, visit John’s websiteSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice atSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: What is the essence of mindfulness?
But actually, even a lot of the science comes out of the moments before the thinking sets in, where you have a nonverbal realization, an aha moment, where you see things that no one else has seen up to that point. Then you win the Nobel Prize, or everybody thinks, wow, what a great insight. And sometimes mindfulness is even called insight meditation, but it's not something you do.
It's something you learn to inhabit that's already yours. And that's awareness.
Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself.
If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become Passion Struck. Welcome back to Episode 619 of Passion Struck.
I'm your host, John Myles, and if you're new here, I am so glad you've joined us. Passion Struck isn't just a podcast. It's a movement, a global community of changemakers, seekers, and everyday heroes who are committed to living intentionally and creating lives of deep purpose, connection, and impact. And if you've been on this journey with me, thank you. Your presence truly matters.
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This past month, we went through a series where we explored mental health awareness and featured powerful interviews with Gretchen Rubin on The Secrets of Adulthood, Dr. Judith Joseph on High-Functioning Depression, Zach Mercurio on Workplace Mattering, Joseph Wynn on emotional mastery, and Dr. Andrew Newberg on neurotheology and the mind. I also released five episodes.
In episode 606, I discussed why mental health is the root beneath everything that matters. In 609, I touched on five foundational habits.
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Chapter 2: How does awareness relate to healing?
and sometimes mindfulness is even called insight meditation but it's not something you do it's something you learn to inhabit that's already yours and that's awareness so that's what meditation is all about is learning how to actually take up residency so to speak in the only moment any of us ever have which is now Everything else is either gone or yet to come.
And to learn how to live inside of awareness so that we're not captured and tortured to a large extent by our thoughts and emotions and our likes and dislikes and our reactions and our othering and the enemy and the friends and all of that kind of stuff, which has its own place, but without this kind of awareness,
There can't be any wisdom, there can't be any compassion, and there can't be any clarity around how to thread the needle of human beings not just killing each other forever, each generation of which does it with more and more horrifyingly sophisticated weapons, which now include like toy drones that you can put a grenade or a missile launcher on and then kill all sorts of people with these like digital devices that cost like $50 in the store.
And I've said an awful lot up to this point, but that gives you, in some sense, the arc of the sweep of like from when I was 21 years old and a student at MIT and where this showed me, in a way, a new hidden dimension of what it means to be human. What I called when I was at MIT, because we like fancy words, an orthogonal dimension of reality. It's here all the time, only until you
Learn how to recognize it. You just don't even know it's there. And it can help enormously with how much you drive yourself crazy, how much you suffer, how angry you get, how lonely you get, how depressed you get. And you already have the solution in a certain way. And that is, as the Buddhists speak about it, because...
The Buddha gave historically the most articulate teachings around mindfulness and the most thorough and profound that you're already okay. And there's no place to go, nothing to do, nothing to attain. Meditation is not about attaining some special fantastic meditative state where all of a sudden you're you and everything is good forever. It's just not like that.
It's like discovering an old friend, which is awareness. And it's never not been here for you, but you have to learn to. Let that become your default address, so to speak. I live here in awareness rather than I live in stress reactivity and anger and fear my whole life. And that's a choice every single one of us can make. And it's not that hard.
It's not. And for some background on me, I ended up graduating from the Naval Academy and Did some time working in SEAL teams and my first exposure to the SEALs came around 1994. And one of the things that I found very interesting was that they were already using mindfulness, yoga, breath work. as a way to control basically their breathing, their whole system, their nervousness.
And so I was introduced to this. And what I look back upon is the least likely place I thought I would find it. But I've been using these practices ever since, which is now 30 plus years. And one of the things that i often think about and i've heard you reference as well is the work of henry david thoreau and i've always loved the words i went to the woods because i wish to live deliberately
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