Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Katherine Morgan Schafler on Control, Perfectionism, and Letting Go | EP 572
13 Feb 2025
Chapter 1: How can perfectionism be transformed into a strength?
Yeah. Someone asked me on a panel once, like, so how did you decide to go with the publisher and not self-publish? And I could not stop laughing because I was like, I, just publishers do so much work and agents and there's so much behind the scenes stuff that is so hard and tedious and like doing that in addition to the creative work of putting something out into the world.
I don't, I can't do that. And I don't want to learn how, because I don't need to, you know, because you can have people who are very good at that and who love doing that and for whom that is a strength and could do that really easily. You can have those people help you to do it and you can help them by saying, here's a great book.
Can you bind it and put a barcode on it and get it into Barnes and Nobles and do all the stuff that I have zero interest in doing?
And Catherine, that brings us to the last one, the intense perfectionist who's laser focused on their vision, often struggling with anger or frustration when things don't go as planned. And as I was reading this type, it made me think of Steve Jobs.
Yeah.
Because he was someone who was so laser focused on his vision. He didn't give a hoot about likability. That was like the last thing from his mind. And this is a type in the Fortune 50 world that I existed in, I saw a lot of this. And you see a lot of it, I think, in entrepreneurs too.
So how can someone, if they're an intense perfectionist, balance their drive for results with the need for collaborating and having empathy on others, which typically can be lacking? Yeah.
So intense perfectionist pros side are exactly that. They don't care so much about being liked by others, which tends to help them professionally and hurt them personally. But when you don't care so much, when you're not fixated on people liking you and winning a popularity contest, it's very easy for you to be direct. Right?
Often we get into like a politeness contest with people because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we don't want to be perceived in a certain way. We're focused on impression management. Intense perfectionists have no time for that. And that's really helpful in creating momentum around a project and infusing efficiency.
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Chapter 2: What are the five types of perfectionists?
Well, Catherine, thank you so much for sharing that. And I'm going to have to wrap up here because I know you need to go. But this is one of those episodes where I wish I had another hour with you because there are a few that we just talked about self-punishment. But there are a few things I just want to give to the audience on why they should buy this book.
Uh, two of my favorite chapters were chapter seven and chapter eight and chapter seven. Catherine goes into 10 key perspective shifts to help you find the success you're looking for. And in chapter eight, she goes through eight behavioral strategies to help each type of perfectionist. So definitely encourage you to buy the book, to learn about those things.
And one of the, my favorite things that you talk about in the book is perfectionism is a power and. To me, it's this whole idea that we're already whole, not because of what we do, but because of who we are and embracing this belief can deepen our sense of belonging. And we shouldn't look at perfectionism as a negative aspect to us, but as a strength, we just need to learn how to harness.
So with that, what is the best way for listeners to learn more about you?
Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me and sharing your hard one platform with me. You're so easy to talk to. I loved this. And I also wish we had another, I'm going to call it three hours.
I can, you know, I think reading a book by a therapist and going to actual therapy are very different things, but I tried my best to punch like two years of therapy into a book of universal themes that whether you identify as a perfectionist or not, like, they're going to be salient for you in some way. At least they have been for me in my life.
And the whole book is really like a container space for myself. It's like a ringing bell for me to help remember the things that I know. I feel like so much of our personal work, you could tell me if you disagree or not, is like just 90% of the work is just remembering what you know. You know what I mean? But we can fall into these moments of amnesia when it comes to this stuff.
You can find me at my website, kathrynmorganschaffler.com. I'm also on Instagram at kathrynmorganschaffler. And you can take a quiz, a fun, not empirically validated one minute online personality quiz to find out what your perfectionist profile is at perfectionistguide.com or in any of the other places I just said.
And the book is called The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control, A Path to Peace and Power. And it's available in hardcover, paperback, on Audible, at all the places that you can buy all the books. So thank you so much again for having me. I loved this conversation.
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Chapter 3: How did Katherine's personal journey influence her understanding of control?
Fear is a real MF-er, a top shelf grade A son of a bitch that will let you ruin your whole week if you let it run the show. That's a sentence in the book. And in this world of so much information coming at us all the time, it's hard to filter out what we should be worried about and what we shouldn't.
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