Pivot
Elon Steps Back from DOGE, Wall Street Whiplash, and Meta’s Antitrust Trial Continues
Fri, 25 Apr 2025
Kara and Scott discuss Elon Musk's decision to step back from DOGE focus on Tesla, Instagram co-founder Kevin Systrom’s testimony in the Meta antitrust trial, and late Zappos co-founder Tony Hsieh’s newly found will. Plus, Sarah Palin loses her defamation retrial against the New York Times, and another whiplash week on Wall Street. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on Bluesky at @pivotpod.bsky.social. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts of this podcast episode?
And I'm Scott Galloway.
How you doing, Scott? Guess what? Guess what?
What, Cara?
We are Webby winners once again. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
I just want to thank the Academy.
Okay. The Pivot won the Webby Award and the People's Choice Award, both of them.
Both, yeah.
We like that the people love us. For the Best Business Podcast—
And the judges, right?
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Chapter 2: What was Kevin Systrom's testimony about Instagram in the Meta antitrust trial?
I have won. I won the Bunn Award in my freshman year of college.
That's something to do with journalism.
Yeah, it was. I won as a freshman. Seniors got it. And it upset the entire ecosystem. And the seniors hated me for winning it.
I think they hated you for other reasons. I'm just going to go out on another limb.
I won a Loeb Award once.
Oh, that's big. That's journalism, right?
Yeah. Yeah. It's all the journalism awards.
This was all, you're doing what I'm doing. You asked me not really caring. You just wanted me to ask you.
No, I'm just, I didn't know.
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Chapter 3: How does Meta's antitrust situation relate to EU's Digital Markets Act fines?
Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. It's like, which would have happened without the other kind of thing?
I mean, I bet you we would have been successful as an independent company as well.
So they were using this to say that he was happy there. And now let's listen then to a clip from 2023 at South by Southwest where I interviewed Kevin.
I think the worst part of the sale was just like trying to both accomplish something great with the company And also merge it into a company that didn't quite know how to look at you. Were you a competitor? Were we excited to own you? Like, it's like a roommate who moves in and you're like, oh, like this person's really cool, but also there's stuffs everywhere.
Right.
That's kind of what it felt like for eight years. And... Bad roommate. Are there any good roommates? I don't know. Maybe that's the reason why people shouldn't have roommates. But it was challenging, but we did great things.
That's the attitude that Kevin had for a long time. He was very frustrated internally. Mark was petty with him, I think, and jealous. I think that's no question. It's an interesting trial.
It was interesting that they had Kevin there, and not interesting that Evan Spiegel, who turned down, who I interviewed yesterday, by the way, in Washington, at Snapchat, who had turned down, and then Facebook proceeded to blast them by taking all their ideas. Any thoughts on this? I mean, I think people publicly try to put on a good face, right? You've been in these situations, Scott.
Yeah, look, Kevin strikes me as a very talented entrepreneur. I don't doubt that anything he says, there's some veracity to it. But, you know, he cashed their check. What a shocker. The current CEO or the CEO was on top and wanted to maintain his platform, his kind of firstborn Facebook, maybe even at the expense of Instagram.
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Chapter 4: What is the outcome of Sarah Palin's defamation retrial against The New York Times?
It was, right.
I mean, isn't that kind of perfect for people looking to reach? It doesn't have to promote a certain level of lack of accountability.
But in this information, I don't think that's why they did it. I think it was because they thought privacy was critical. That's not why they did it. I was there.
But regardless of whether, I don't think any of those people are looking to harm children. But when they have features that make it easy for adults to reach out to minors, Isn't that a problem?
It is, but I don't agree with Jonathan. I think Facebook has done less and been more resistant to dealing with things, and they're the big dog.
I would agree with you. I agree.
I think Snapchat is, I'd rather have my kids, and I get the locational feature, and if kids open it up, there are things you can do to it to stop that. It's much more open to fixing. And it certainly has had issues around drug dealers and things like that. Every one of these platforms has.
I'm just saying platforms who have had problems like Reddit and Snapchat have always been willing to change in ways and admit in ways Facebook never has. And ultimately, I think Facebook doesn't really matter because they're the biggest and they have the most impact on everybody.
I think that's a fair point.
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Chapter 5: What are the details about late Zappos co-founder Tony Hsieh's will and legacy?
Chapter 6: How do Kara and Scott discuss parenting and personal stories?
Chapter 7: What are Kara and Scott's thoughts on social media platforms like Snapchat and Facebook?
Chapter 8: What is the significance of the Webby Awards for the hosts and their podcast?
And I'm Scott Galloway.
How you doing, Scott? Guess what? Guess what?
What, Cara?
We are Webby winners once again. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
I just want to thank the Academy.
Okay. The Pivot won the Webby Award and the People's Choice Award, both of them.
Both, yeah.
We like that the people love us. For the Best Business Podcast—
And the judges, right?
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