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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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You should go see the new indie horror film Leviticus. It's both a queer coming-of-age romance and a blistering indictment of gay conversion therapy. Mostly, though, it is a seriously creepy movie about a demonic entity that knows exactly how to get to you. I mean, I think it's pretty terrific, but I'm curious to hear what the rest of the panel thinks. I'm Glenn Weldon.
Joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is film and culture critic Kate Young. Hey, Kate.
Thanks for having me.
Also with us is freelance music and culture journalist Rihanna Cruz. Hey, Rihanna.
Hey, Glenn. Happy to be here.
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Chapter 2: What is the plot of the movie Leviticus?
Rihanna, kick us off. What do you think?
Leviticus feels like the type of gay movie that I would fixate on in high school. It's tone driven. You know, the main characters kiss less than 10 minutes in. There's a Frank Ocean needle drop. It's kind of erotic. It felt kind of like a fan fiction, and I think that's a feature, not a bug. However, at the same time, I don't know if I connected with it, to be honest.
I think it's a kind of rare movie where it's gay horror... done well stepping outside of the box a little bit to focus on belonging belief you mentioned conversion therapy that's the main theme but I don't know it just didn't really connect with me I think I find it defeatingly bleak in a way that I usually I like bleak movies but Not this one.
I felt like it had surface level messaging in terms of queerness and community. You know, like the fear will never get you if you're never alone.
Chapter 3: How does Leviticus address themes of queer identity?
That's kind of the message of the entity here. Yeah. When I was watching it, I was like, technically, this is a good movie. And I could see why people like it. But there's something missing, I think, between the film and me connecting with it. I finished the movie and it was kind of in one ear, out the other.
Okay. How about you, Kate?
I kind of feel the same. I didn't dislike it. I thought that it was... good at the kind of like baseline horror stuff. It definitely had a really good, like creepy kind of atmosphere that really worked on me. I think the highlight for me is the actual relationship between this couple. I think they're very sweet. It reminded me a lot of Heartstoppers on Netflix. They're just like,
adorable and they have real chemistry.
Chapter 4: What are the main characters' experiences in the film?
And I think that that's something that could easily have been overlooked because it's a horror film. But it not only hasn't been, but I think it makes the horror more visceral because the way in which this entity functions, it preys on the thing that you most love.
And because we are able to see the way that they feel about each other every time they interact with this thing, it gets worse in ways that feel much more personal and much more upsetting specifically because of that aspect of it that I really liked. But I think in general, you know, it's kind of like its own play on it follows.
That stuff is interesting, but it felt like there were really good moments kind of tied together with like bits that were fine. Okay.
As you might've gleaned from my intro, I like this a lot. I kind of liked it a hell of a lot more than y'all did. I liked everything about it from the look of it, you know, this dusty, rusted out factory town on the edge of the Outback area. which you can tell either say it or it's actually implied that it was built around the church. I really like these performances.
These are not 30-year-olds playing teenagers. Like, that's key because so much of this movie is resting on these kids' shoulders in their performances itself. When I like a movie this much, I go out and I read the reviews because I want to hear the critiques.
And I read one that was mostly positive but mentioned in passing in a sentence, you know, sometimes the logic of the monster doesn't always make sense. And I remember... Just feeling so angry about that. I was going to rush to the barricades to defend this because I don't know. I'll just speak for me as a queer man who was a queer kid.
I think the conceit here, the premise is something you could just bounce a quarter off of. I mean, the thing that will kill you takes the form of the thing you most desire. So these fundamentalists in this movie are weaponizing queer desire to rid themselves of queer people. Sure. Show me the lie.
I mean, queer people grow up in communities that hate them, and we internalize that hate, and that internalization is the thing that's doing the work that these bigots want to do.
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Chapter 5: What critiques do the panelists have about the film's messaging?
It is insidious, and that's exactly what this film captures, in a way that some people of faith might find unfair. I don't. Yeah. It gets something else correct, too. It gets this thing that was even more galling and I thought was even more accurate, which is over the course of this film, a queer kid dies.
And when that happens, those same bigots point to the queerness itself as the cause, completely absolving themselves and their hatred and their fear from the equation. Show me the lie. I mean, the metaphor there is airtight. And it's about as good a working definition of evil as you're going to find anywhere. I think you were on the show, Rhianna, when we talked about I Saw the TV Glow, right?
Yeah. Oh, totally. Love that flick. Yeah.
My defensiveness about this film kind of feels like the way I felt defensive about that film. And I understand they're very good films. But that is another queer film whose central metaphor is admittedly doing a lot of heavy lifting.
Yeah.
But I will hear no disparagement because I don't know. I just feel so protective. And I get the irony. I get that I am being evangelical about this film because I want people to see it. I want people to like it. Can you speak to something that just didn't hit you so that I may refute it?
It's interesting, you know, hearing you talk, Glenn, because some of the critiques that I had are – Now, I think being recontextualized, I feel a little bit more compassionate towards this movie than I did. I think the movie does a lot of things well. You mentioned the setting. I think the setting is a big...
And why this movie works, because I think similar with TV glow, which I loved and is one of my favorite movies of the past several years, like the setting in dead end suburbia is something that really seeps in from every corner of the frame. You know, you're watching these characters ride their bikes next to a giant factory. They just exist in this context and everything makes sense that way.
What didn't really do it for me is I felt like it was simple. Okay. largely. And when I watch horror movies, it's not like I need them to be grand and vast and tackle these large things. But I felt like the concept of Leviticus was written in one sentence and made into a movie. And that's what I mean when I say it's kind of fan fiction-y. Because when I was watching, it felt like
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Chapter 6: How does the setting contribute to the film's atmosphere?
So I could draw Fred Flintstone and Snoopy. And then probably a couple of years later, I started drawing them having sex.
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And we're back. OK, so you're both touching on critiques that I've actually seen when I read all those reviews. And it is a critique that I didn't object to because I kind of get it, which is that the religious community feels a bit underwritten. His mom certainly feels a little underwritten.
I don't know, though, because there's a different version of this film, which is made more for like a four quadrant kind of mainstream audience where we get a lot more of the religious community. And again, no offense, but if Stephen King wrote this, we would see the religious community being mustache twirly evil, right? And taking joy in the destruction of queer lives.
But what this film gets that I really liked actually is that's not how it works because the kind of negations of self and the spirit that these folks are engaged upon is is not something that's joyous and ecstatic. It makes everyone miserable because they know it's damage. They know it's abuse.
And in this film, the people doing this harm are telling themselves they're doing it for the kid's good because his soul will be saved. And that also makes sense to me because that's what a community like this would trade upon. A kid dies, misery deepens, the community's sense of misery deepens. So as that happens, they need to reach for this sense of divine salvation.
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Chapter 7: What are the panelists' differing opinions on the film's effectiveness?
And I would argue that this film is didactic. I just love the message. This film comes out and says essentially that if you are caught up in a situation where you are being hurt, where you're being hated... It's also saying implicitly, look, in an ideal world, things like family and community and religion should offer you support and safety. It's not always the case.
And when they don't and you're in danger because of it, when you're being actively hurt, you either get out or die. And if you give in to feelings of guilt or obligation to the very people who are hurting you, You can't. You've got to save yourself. And, you know, it's a simple message, but, oh, boy, it hit me squarely in the solar plexus.
And that's why I kind of came down on this movie differently than you all did. But I think we all kind of agree it's worth seeing.
Yeah, I do.
Totally. I do.
For sure.
Well, all right. So we're coming down on it slightly differently, but I think we all agree you should go see it. Some of us want you to go see it more than others. That brings us to the end of our show. Kate Young, Rihanna Cruz, thank you so much for being here.
Thanks, Glenn. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org slash happy hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Lennon Sherburn, Liz Metzger and Mike Katziff and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy.
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