Reinventing Professionals

New Legal Tech Opportunities and the Popularity of Generative AI in Latin America

20 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Andrés Jara, a lawyer and the founder of Alster.law, a provider of alternative legal services, and Kea Technology, a developer of matter...

ILTACON 2023 Trends and Takeaways Mixtape

18 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

At the 2023 International Legal Technology Association Conference, I had the privilege of speaking with leaders from various organizations for this #I...

Summer Vacations and the Power of Client Service

15 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Billy Scott, General Manager of the Virginia Hotel and Cottages in Cape May, New Jersey. We discussed the secret to maintaining the high...

Data Management and Legal Technology in Finland

12 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Heikki Ilvessalo, the co-founder of Ilves, a legal data consultancy and software firm, in Finland, the founder of the Finnish Legal Tech ...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep 10

08 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this tenth episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discussed aligning the legal ecosyst...

The Job Market for Roles in E-Discovery, Information Governance, and Privacy

06 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Michael Potters, the CEO of the Glenmont Group, an executive search firm that works with law firms, corporate legal departments, and prov...

The Difference Between Crisis Communications and Public Relations

01 Sep 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Nathan Miller, the CEO and Founder of Miller Ink, a full-service strategic and crisis communications firm in Los Angeles. We discussed th...

Three Legal Tech Founders Share Their Perspectives on Raising Money in the Current Environment

25 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Katherine Allen, the CEO of Flo Recruit, Ross Guberman, the CEO of LawCatch, the developer of BriefCatch, and Jim Wagner, the CEO of The ...

The Relationship Between Task Management and Contract Lifecycle Management

23 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Vishal Sunak, the founder and CEO of LinkSquares, an AI-powered contract lifecycle management and legal task management solution. We disc...

Streamlining the Preservation and Collection of ESI from Microsoft Teams in E-Discovery

16 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Peter Callaghan, the Chief Revenue Officer at Pagefreezer, a technology company that provides compliance and litigation support technolog...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep9

14 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this ninth episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discussed ILTACON 2023, law firm lea...

Helping Legal Professionals Elevate Their Mental Health

11 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Sheila Robinson-Kiss, a therapist and mental health educator, who leads the Rebalancing America and Beyond Initiative, a consulting firm ...

How Litigators Can Leverage Data to Gain a Competitive Advantage

09 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jeff Jacobson, a litigation partner with Faegre Drinker Biddle & Reath in New York, and Nicole Clark, the Co-Founder and CEO of Trell...

Whether Emerging AI Technology Will Increase a Legal Department’s Productivity

01 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jim O’Hare, the Vice President of CLM Services at LegalEase Solutions. We discussed how legal teams are using artificial intelligence w...

The Risks of Using AI in Legal

28 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Ignat Postny, the Executive Director at TAG Consulting, a boutique consulting firm specializing in corporate governance, asset protection...

Leadership in E-Discovery

26 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jamie Berry, the President of Evolver Legal Services, an e-discovery and litigation support services company. We discussed how legal team...

Redefining Legal Operations

21 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Connie Brenton and Jeff Franke, the founders of LegalOps.com, a membership community providing legal operations and other professionals w...

Streamlining the DSAR Process and Ensuring Compliance with Data Privacy Regulations

20 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Bill Piwonka, Chief Marketing Officer at Exterro, a provider of legal GRC software designed for in-house legal, privacy, and IT teams at ...

How the Private Markets Sector is Transforming its Use of Contract Automation Technology

18 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Troy Pospisil, the Founder and CEO of Ontra, a provider of contract automation and intelligence solutions for asset managers. We discusse...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep 8

14 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this eighth episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discussed the proposed National Ins...

Reinventing Digital Reading and Note-Taking

11 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Dr. Craig Tashman, the Founder & CEO of LiquidText, an active reading, note-taking, and document analysis platform. We discussed why lawy...

Changing the Way Startups Access Legal Services

07 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Stepan Khzrtian, the co-founder and CEO of Corpora, a dashboard that helps startups get legal tasks done, from formation to Series B. We ...

The Long-Term Effect of GPT and Large Language Models on Legal Services

06 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jay Sarmaz, the Co-founder & CEO of Truve, a cloud-based data platform for law firms. We discussed how digital transformation has affecte...

When Rainmakers Should Consider Moving Law Firms

29 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jennifer Gillman, the President of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting company focused solely on law firm partner placement. We d...

The Effects of Harvey and Generative AI on the Legal Industry

27 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Daren Orzechowski, the global co-head of Allen & Overy's Technology practice and a partner in the Silicon Valley office focusing on M&A a...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep 7

26 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this seventh episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discussed the Lexpo conference in ...

New Report on Dynamic Leadership, Rapid Growth, and Increased Profitability in a Post-Pandemic Era

23 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Lydia Flocchini, the Chief Marketing Officer at SurePoint Technologies, Debbie Foster, the CEO at Affinity Consulting, and Laura Wenzel...

Measuring the Success of an E-Discovery Project

22 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Vinny Liu, a project manager at Level Legal, a provider of e-discovery managed services. We discussed how to measure the success of an e-...

Combining Human Talent and Technological Support in Business Development

20 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with David Kamien, the Founder and CEO of Mind-Alliance Systems, a provider of MindPeer, a business development and customer intelligence soft...

Ensuring Purpose-Built Outcomes in Legal Services

16 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Doug Kaminski, the Chief Strategy Officer for Purpose Legal, formerly Cobra Legal Solutions, an alternative legal services provider. We d...

Aligning Data Science and Practice of Law

13 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with David Gaskey, the Founding Shareholder at Carlson, Gaskey & Olds in Birmingham, Michigan, and the Co-Founder with Vasu Mahavishnu, the Ch...

Using Generative AI to Provide Greater Client Value

09 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Greg Coates and Kennan Samman, the VP for Generative AI and the Vice President for Global Product Sales, respectively, at Litera, a softw...

2023 CLOC Global Institute - Mixtape May 17, 2023

08 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For this mixtape from Wednesday, May 17, 2023, at the 2023 Corporate Legal Operations Consortium Global Institute, I had the privilege of speaking wit...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep 6

07 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this sixth episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discussed ending Q2 on a high note, ...

2023 CLOC Global Institute - Mixtape May 16, 2023

06 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For this mixtape from Tuesday, May 16, 2023, on-site at the 2023 Corporate Legal Operations Consortium Global Institute, I had the privilege of speaki...

How Legal Teams Are Deploying AI in Their Contract Management Processes

01 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Matt Patel, the co-founder and Chief Operating Officer of Malbek, a contract lifecycle management software platform. We discussed the adv...

Managing the Complexities of Data-Driven Legal Risks

30 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Andy Cosgrove, the Chief Strategy Officer at TCDI, a provider of e-discovery software and services. We discussed how legal teams distingu...

How Law Firms Are Preparing for a Return to the Office

26 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Anthony Davies, the Chief Revenue Officer and a Senior Partner at Forrest Solutions, an onsite outsourcing, flexible staffing, and altern...

The Expanding Influence of Legal Operations

24 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Marc Zamsky and Marla Crawford, the CEO and general counsel, respectively, for Cimplifi, an integrated legal services provider that align...

Balancing a Return to the Office Full-Time and Working in a Hybrid Manner

19 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Alaa Pasha, the CEO of Maptician, an end-to-end solution for hybrid operations with a focus on law firms. We discussed what firms that ar...

Promoting Innovation and Digital Transformation in Europe at Lexpo

15 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Rob Ameerun, the founder of the Lexpo conference, which is focused on promoting innovation and digital transformation throughout Europe. ...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep 4

12 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this fifth episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and Legal Industry Analyst Ari Kaplan of A...

Where Legal Teams Can Gain the Most Value From Technology

10 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Nathan Cemenska, the Director of Legal Operations and Industry Insights at Wolters Kluwer ELM Solutions. We discussed the current state o...

Using Happiness as a Super Power in Legal

04 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jordana Confino, the founder of JC Coaching & Consulting, a company devoted to advancing the well-being of the legal profession.  She is...

Understanding the Approach to E-Discovery in the APAC Region

02 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with co-founders Yongmin Cho, CEO, and Angie Cho, regional director, for Intellectual Data, an e-discovery provider based in Seoul, Korea, sup...

The Connection Between Entity Management and Law Department Efficiency

28 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Steven Choi, the CEO of Traact Inc, a legal operations software company focused on automating entity management and compliance in corpora...

Best Practices for Collecting Data from Mobile Devices

26 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Matt Rasmussen, the Founder & CEO of ModeOne Technologies, a cloud-based software framework that enables remote data collection from smar...

The Importance of Developing Systems to Grow a Legal Practice

20 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Michael Chastaine, a criminal defense attorney, coach, radio host, and the author of five books including LegalEase: The Ultimate Guide o...

The Importance of Being Customer-Centric

18 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Eric Thurston, the president and CEO of SurePoint Technologies, a provider of client management, practice management, and financial manag...

*Special Episode* Featuring Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief of Legal IT Insider, for Charting Change in Legal Ep 4

14 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In this fourth episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discuss practical artifici...

High-Efficiency AI and Contract Review

12 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Francisco Webber, the co-founder of Austrian AI company Cortical.io, which develops intelligent document processing solutions for unstruc...

How ChatGPT Could Impact the Way Lawyers Practice

07 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Bim Dave, the Executive Vice President of Helm360, a provider of legal technology products and services. We discussed how ChatGPT could i...

Legalweek Mixtape - Thursday, March 23, 2023

04 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For this Legalweek mixtape from Thursday, March 23, 2023, I had the privilege of speaking with Brad Cope, Vice President of Marketing at Level Legal, ...

Legalweek Mixtape - Wednesday, March 22, 2023

30 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For this Legalweek mixtape from Wednesday, March 22, 2023, I had the privilege of speaking with Ian Campbell, CMO of iCONECT, Jessica Robinson, VP of ...

Managing Data Privacy Risk More Effectively

27 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jerry McIver, the Director of Cyber Services and Data Privacy Officer for Trustpoint.One, an integrated legal solutions provider serving ...

Legalweek Mixtape - Tuesday, March 21, 2023

24 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For this Legalweek mixtape from Tuesday, March 21, 2023, I had the privilege of speaking with Or Bar, CEO at apprentAI, Kelley Castell, CEO at ProfitS...

Legalweek Mixtape - Monday, March 20, 2023

21 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For this Legalweek mixtape, I had the privilege of speaking with Josh Blandi of UniCourt, Wendy Cole of OpenText, Stephen Goldstein of Squire Patton B...

Balancing Human Talent and Technological Efficiency in E-Discovery

20 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Or Bar and Matan Yah Ben Zion, the CEO and CTO, respectively, of apprentAI, an e-discovery software platform for analyzing documents and ...

How the Use of AI Among Legal Professionals is Impacting Their Work-Life Balance

16 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jerry Levine, the Chief Evangelist and General Counsel at ContractPodAi, a legal technology company focused on contract lifecycle managem...

How Document Automation is Being Used Beyond Litigation

14 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Haydn Jones, the Director of Business Development at Benchly, a Texas-based software company specializing in litigation document automati...

Integrating ELM and CLM to Empower Corporate Legal Teams

10 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Aaron Pierce, the Vice President of Product Management at CounselLink, an enterprise legal management solution for corporate legal depart...

Business Process Outsourcing for Small Law Firms and Small Software Companies

07 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Chris Stock, the Founder and CEO of ShiftSixOS, a business process outsourcing company focused on supporting small law firms and small so...

Understanding the Impact of CRM on Law Firm Success

01 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Neil Cameron, the lead analyst at Legal IT Insider, a leading legal technology website and the publisher of the Orange Rag newsletter, wh...

Business Development and Calculating the True Cost of a Legal Matter

27 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Sebastian Westerby, the CEO of Tort Experts, a vertically integrated legal case acquisition marketing company. We discussed how the tradi...

How the Approach to Efficiency and Productivity is Evolving in an Uncertain Economy

23 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Derek Schutz, the Director of Product Management at Aderant, a global business management software provider for law firms, which recently...

Midsize Law Firm Priorities and Trends

16 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Early Stephens, the CEO of Actionstep, a practice management software developer that serves law firms worldwide. The company just release...

Effectively Applying Technology to Different Areas of the Business of Law

15 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Daniel Steinberg, the Founder and CEO of lawbrokr, a pre-qualification platform that helps lawyers humanize the way clients interact with...

Overcoming Resistance to Digital Transformation in E-Discovery

10 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Dave Ruel, the Head of Product at Hanzo, a developer of solutions for enterprise legal, governance, and compliance teams to manage their ...

The Power of an Innovation Roadmap in Modern E-Discovery

07 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Sarai Schubert, the Chief Operations Officer of IPRO, an e-discovery software company. We discussed when and how to use an innovation roa...

Selling Technology to Law Firms and In-House Legal Teams

03 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jon Bartman, the Co-Founder and Head of Jameson Legal Tech, a legal tech consortium and recruiting company focused on legal technology. W...

Leveraging Technology to Accelerate the Delivery of Legal Services

02 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Valentin Feklistov and Alexander Bitskov, the CEO and COO, respectively, of Legid, a platform that facilitates access to legal advice onl...

The Link Between CRM and Law Firm Success

26 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Chris Fritsch, a CRM Success Consultant and the Founder of CLIENTSFirst Consulting, a CRM and Data Quality Success consulting firm. We di...

Incorporating Entrepreneurship and a Passion for Innovation Into Your Practice and Career

24 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Brian Potts, a partner with Perkins Coie in Madison, Wisconsin, and Washington, DC, and the author of The Jobless Lawyer's Handbook: How ...

Managing Data, Influencing Legal Technology Adoption, and Studying the Future Professional Services

20 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Zach Warren, the Manager of Enterprise Content for Technology and Innovation with the Thomson Reuters Institute, which produces research ...

Tracking and Empowering Diversity and Inclusion Initiatives in the Legal Profession

17 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Caren Ulrich Stacy, the founder and CEO of Diversity Lab, a think tank that uses metrics, behavioral science, and design thinking to prod...

Balancing the Rising Costs and Risks in E-Discovery

13 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Nick Robinson, the Product Manager for the Microsoft Purview eDiscovery team, which is responsible for this solution offered within the M...

Operating and Growing a Legal Tech Startup in Ukraine

11 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Inna Ptitsyna, the Product Communications Manager at Lawrina, which is an online legal ecosystem with Ukrainian roots. We discussed key s...

Distinguishing E-Discovery Services in a Competitive Market

09 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Kim Taylor, the CEO of Innovative Driven, a provider of e-discovery services. We discussed how Innovative Driven distinguishes its approa...

Technology Trends Driving Change in Small and Midsize Law Firms

06 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with David Bensinger, the founder and CEO of Bensinger Technology, a consulting and managed services provider for small and midsize law firms ...

The Value of Investing in Practice Management and CRM Software

27 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Matt Spiegel, the founder and CEO of Lawmatics, a CRM platform designed to automate client intake and marketing. We discussed how law fir...

Legal Services and Legal Technology CEOs Reflect on 2022 and Offer Perspectives for 2023

22 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

For the 2022 Ari Kaplan Advisors CEO Roundtable, I was fortunate to discuss market trends, business challenges, and potential solutions as we approach...

The Importance of a Partner Ecosystem for Legal Tech Growth

20 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Brian Kenneally, CEO, and Peter Zver, Head of Revenue and Operations in North America, respectively for Bundledocs, a software tool for c...

Adapting to How Lawyers and Legal Professionals Approach Discovery

16 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Parkash Khatri, the Founder and CEO of Intrepid Managed Discovery, a provider of e-discovery, managed review, and deposition services. We...

CLM, ELM, and Key Trends to Track in 2023

12 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Olga Mack, the VP and CEO of Parley Pro at LexisNexis, an end-to-end contract lifecycle management platform. We discussed how Parley Pro'...

How Legal Teams are Expanding Their Use of E-Discovery Tools for Broader Enterprise Use

09 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Cristin Traylor, the Director of Law Firm Strategy Marketing at Relativity, a leading e-discovery review platform. We discussed her car...

Custom Development in E-Discovery

07 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Juan Ramirez, the founder and CEO of NSerio, a company that develops customized software applications for electronic discovery. We disc...

Aligning Expense Management and Law Firm Growth

05 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Eric Friedrichsen, the CEO of Emburse, a provider of spend management software to law firms of all sizes. We discussed how the pandemi...

The Benefits of a Digital Mailroom

02 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Steve Irons and Joe Scott, the President and Senior Director of Client Engagement, respectively, for DocSolid, maker of the Airmail2 Di...

The Digitization of Court Reporting

28 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with David Greenblatt, a Senior Account Executive at Rev, a provider of transcription services. We discussed the value of automated speech r...

Transforming Contracts with Natural Language Processing

22 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Horace Wu, the Founder and CEO of Syntheia, a contract data search and analytics company. We discussed how improvements in natural langua...

Automating Patent Drafting

21 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Jack Xu, the CEO of PatentPal, a software platform that automates patent drafting. We discussed the elements of the patent prosecution pr...

Changes, Challenges, and Choices in Managing Modern Mobile Collections

18 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Monica Harris, a product business manager for Cellebrite, a digital intelligence software company that provides tools to collect, review,...

ELTACON 2022 and the Expansion of Legal Tech in Europe

14 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Holger Zscheyge and Zohar Fisher. Zohar is the founder of Tech&Law in Israel, which is the legal tech department at his consulting firm, ...

E-Discovery Unfiltered Special: 2022 Trends Impacting the Industry in 2023

11 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Marc Zamsky, the CEO of Cimplifi, about the 2022 E-Discovery Unfiltered report and expectations for e-discovery in 2023.

Balancing Human Talent and Technological Efficiency in the Practice of Law

09 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Matt Goldberg, the founder and CEO of Slatewell, a software platform for trusts and estates professionals. We discussed how the pandemic ...

The Future of Legal Payments

07 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Erika Segal, the brand manager for LawPay, a legal payments platform. We discussed how payment options for legal services have evolved, w...

Reimagining Lateral Recruiting

04 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Albert Tawil, the founder & CEO of Lateral Hub, an online job platform that allows attorneys to browse and apply for job openings at top-...

Addressing Transaction Management Challenges in Legal

02 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Daniel Porus. the Chief Commercial Officer at Legatics, a legal transaction management platform. We discussed the key transaction managem...

Using Legal Analytics to Gain a Competitive Advantage

28 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Aria Nejad, in-house counsel with Lex Machina, a legal analytics company. We discussed how legal analytics can provide attorneys with a c...

E-Discovery for the Rest of Us

26 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Tom O’Connor, a consultant, speaker, and writer focused on innovative litigation support systems. He is a member of the global advisory...