In this Valentine’s Day special from Pushkin Industries, Malcolm breaks down the perfect break up song. But first, Broken Record hosts Justin Richmond and Leah Rose make their cases: is R&B the undisputed sound of love? Are sad songs more romantic? Can country win the day? Plus, Ben Naddaff-Hafrey writes a love song of his own, and the legendary songwriter Babyface talks about how young love shaped his most enduring ballads. Whether you're mid-swoon or nursing a broken heart, this episode is Pushkin’s Valentine to you. Listen to Broken Record’s interview with Babyface. Listen to a Revisionist History episode about sad songs. And hear more from Ben’s band, Rookin. Plus, our battle of the playlists continues… here’s Leah’s sad songs playlist. And Justin’s for love songs. Pick your fighter and… enjoy! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What are the hosts discussing in this Valentine's Day special?
She's lovable.
So then how could you not say that R&B isn't like the preeminent genre for love songs? It has to do with the ethereal and the theological down to the romantic and the platonic. It's everything.
And then it just gets dirtier and dirtier as the years go on. And then we land at the thong song.
Yes, it goes thong. Shout out to Cisco. I love Cisco. That's a great album.
I love Cisco too. R&B does do love very, very well. But there's other genres too. I mean, look at Dolly Parton on Jolene. She's begging and she's pleading and she's out of her mind. Please don't take my man.
But then who takes, and we love Dolly, but then who takes a Dolly song like I'll Always Love You and takes it to the next level?
Whitney. Whitney. Speaking of Whitney, someone who could sing anyone's song and make it sound phenomenal. This makes me think of the interview you did with Babyface for Broken Record back in 2023. And he wrote some of Whitney's biggest hits.
I mean, he wrote some of my favorite Whitney songs. Forget about his. This is some of my favorites. And, you know, a million other unforgettable songs that, you know, yeah, they also happen to be hits. Boyz II Men's End of the Road, Mariah Carey's We Belong Together, Breathe Again by Toni Braxton.
Yes. That was such a great interview.
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Chapter 2: Why is R&B considered the best genre for love songs?
Thanks for having me. This was fun. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day.
Such a beautiful song. Again, that's If I Didn't Know You By Now by Rukin. I'm not sure if Ben's going to convince Justin that folk is the best genre for love songs. But in a minute, Malcolm Gladwell weighs in, and he gets us thinking about this question in an entirely different way.
Yeah, I don't think country music does good love songs. I think it does good breakup songs, heartbreak songs. It does the reverse.
Malcolm Gladwell is a best-selling author, the host of Revisionist History, and Pushkin's resident country music aficionado. When I heard we were doing a Valentine's Day music episode, I knew we were going to have to get a stake.
So country music, which is consistent with its role in American popular culture, it is the downer to rock music's upper. Right. Rock music. And I did a whole revisions history episode on on this. It was, you know, the the striking thing about rock music is the inability of rock musicians to write effective sad songs. Their sad songs are terrible. They're just not sad. Right.
They're not believably sad. They're rock and roll songs that are kind of, you know, trying to pretend to like I gave the example of of Wild Horses, which is supposed to be a sad song. It's not sad. What's sad about it? It's faux sad and faux country. It's also banal and like wild, wild horses. Like what is going on? I mean, it's just like it doesn't work.
Country, though, is totally comfortable in that kind of emotional morass. That's the whole—it's depressive music. That's the whole point. It's the South. It's like white guys who lost the Civil War, never got over it. That's what it is. You know, I was talking to some guy yesterday about the Church of Christ, which is a almost overwhelmingly Southern denomination of Christian denomination.
And Nashville is the heart of— of Church of Christ. The music in Church of Christ churches is insane. The Church of Christ famously has no orchestral music. It's all a cappella, which is way more demanding. The Church of Christ, it is not a happy denomination. It's not Pentecostals jumping up and down and welcoming the risen Lord. No.
It's like white Southerners bemoaning the loss of their status and be bowing their head in the face of a vengeful God.
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