Right About Now with Ryan Alford
SHOVELING SH*T: The Entrepreneur's Messy Path to Success with Mike & Kass Lazerow
Tue, 03 Jun 2025
Right About Now with Ryan AlfordJoin media personality and marketing expert Ryan Alford as he dives into dynamic conversations with top entrepreneurs, marketers, and influencers. "Right About Now" brings you actionable insights on business, marketing, and personal branding, helping you stay ahead in today's fast-paced digital world. Whether it's exploring how character and charisma can make millions or unveiling the strategies behind viral success, Ryan delivers a fresh perspective with every episode. Perfect for anyone looking to elevate their business game and unlock their full potential.Resources:Right About Now NewsletterFree PodKasst Monetization CourseJoin The NetworkFollow Us On InstagramSubscribe To Our Youtube ChannelVibe Science MediaSUMMARYIn this episode of "Right About Now," host Ryan Alford engages with Kass and Mike Lazerow, co-authors of "Shoveling Shit," to explore their entrepreneurial journey. The couple shares insights from building successful companies like Golf.com and Buddy Media. They discuss the importance of resilience, effective leadership, and the dynamics of working together as a married couple. Key themes include the necessity of trust, complementary skill sets, and leading by example. The episode offers actionable advice for entrepreneurs, emphasizing the significance of self-awareness, authenticity, and empowering employees in the evolving business landscape.TAKEAWAYSThe entrepreneurial journey of Kass and Mike Lazerow.Insights on building successful companies like Golf.com and Buddy Media.The importance of actionable insights for entrepreneurs.Challenges faced in fundraising and the significance of building customer relationships.The dynamics of working as a married couple in business.Leadership philosophy and the distinction between being a boss and a buddy.The impact of COVID-19 on workplace dynamics and employee expectations.The role of employee empowerment and fostering resilience in teams.The importance of self-awareness and authenticity in leadership.Future aspirations and the desire to give back to the community.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: What do Kass and Mike Lazerow share about their entrepreneurial journey?
And we ran that and grew that. It was the top social media marketing platform for all the top Fortune 500 brands. We sold that to Salesforce in 2012. And we've been investors and VCs since then. And we wrote this book, Ryan, because we want to help entrepreneurs. We want to help them with the cheat codes. We have like 50 plus in this book.
And we're really here to connect with your audience and help them to not step in the shit that we have stepped in.
Let me just say this. I'm glad you cast a little something called golf.com, really. Brilliant idea. I read this book and I was I was reading it. I was like, I wish I had had this 10 years ago, you know, because I'm about 10 years into my I work for 15 years for other agencies. And I was like, damn, I wanted this 10 years ago. I would have saved me a lot of fucking pain.
telling you there is gold in here like it's it is phrased and formulated in a way that it's absorbed like i'm like that made sense to me the way you kind of positioned it with the examples combined with the stories so it is the narrative of the entrepreneur's guidebook you know that's not as interesting as shoveling shit i know i'm a creative guy too i love shoveling It is.
It really, it really reads that way. And I sit here amazed. It's the names like golf.com and the things that you guys have worked on and seemingly how I don't want it to just kind of fade off to the side. Like those are, that's a big fucking deal. Like, yeah, you know, like that's a huge, you think, okay, well I had golf.com.
I mean, did you, did you have the URL when you came up with a name or did,
So if you can believe it, back in 1998 when we started the company, the only URL we could get at that time was golf serve. So our original company's name was golf serve. And then we backed into this asset that we were able to buy. Mike, who is it from that we bought it from?
From NBC.
Yeah, from NBC that just had it dormant.
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Chapter 2: What insights do they provide from their experience with Golf.com and Buddy Media?
It's the mental bandwidth that it takes up in your brain going, is this person really doing their job? And then that takes you away from doing what you're great at.
Yeah. And has that worked for you? Oh, yeah. It seems like it's got to be your super strengths is being able to kind of count on it.
When I say I'm going to do something for Mike, he doesn't have to worry. When he says he's going to do something, he delivers. So when you have that and you're starting a company and then you're running it and then you start to get like super fast and you hit the gas and you're scaling, that's what you need. You need someone who's not going to drop the ball when you hand off things to them.
Now as investors, how do you evaluate success? your investments. How do you, um, I mean, are these just, they just get put in front of you and you go, Oh, we like this, but don't like that one. It seems like that.
I mean, looking at our investments, we've done space, we've done liquid death, which is water in a can. We've done game companies. We've done music festivals. Um,
We actually spent a lot of time thinking about that because we did the first 75 deals off our own balance sheet, and then we started a firm, which just meant accepting some outside capital as well, and how you make decisions about investments. is how you make money. I mean, that's the make or break.
And what we realize is how we make decisions as investors is how every entrepreneur should look at their business. And so we put together what we call the Go Gauge, but it's a very simple six questions, idiot proof. The six things are very simple and it's what's a product? Why is it different?
And what's interesting for you, and I know a lot of your marketing background is not that different than how you come up with kind of great marketing ideas. right? What's a product? Why is it different? Who's going to buy it? Not what the market size is, but who specifically is going to buy it and how many of those people, right? We're in the golf business.
We didn't own a golf course, so we're not getting tee time revenue. So really hone into like, who's going to buy it. And then it comes down to where we think we've outperformed, which is sales and marketing. How do you get people to find out about the product? distribution and operations. How are you going to get the product to people?
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Chapter 3: How can entrepreneurs build resilience and trust within their teams?
You know, Ryan, when you said that you thought everybody was just this driven, I related it exactly to my thought. I thought everyone in the world was going to be as competitive as I was. or I am, and wanted to win as much as I did, right? Or not lose. And that's been a lesson that I've had to learn over 30 years.
And I think what helped me overcome that one was to really start concentrating on people's strengths and how they can be puzzle pieces to a great team, right? And fit them. And then my expectations went down because we were using their strengths, right?
Yeah, you nailed it, Cass. And I've gotten better at that. That summarizes the question that Mike asked me, like what that journey and things that I've learned. I mean, it's kind of that. And and then if I can't, I've also learned. And then if I can't find this, not that they don't have strengths, but can't find their strengths that are applicable to what we do.
It's time to see them off and get them somewhere where they are valued more.
Or moneyball them and put them in a different position.
Yeah. I love this right here. Don't shine the turd.
Speaking of bad habits.
Oh, man. My wife would throw this one at me occasionally. Being a marketer, you tend to want to shine the turd. Lipstick on the pig, whatever you want to call it.
It's exactly it. Like, it's funny that there's this conflict between, you know, you're selling a story. So it's going to be a little bit more rosy than perhaps you know it is at the time. But then don't shine the turd when it comes to, you know, X, Y and Z. Mike used to have the tendency to tell a lot of, you know, tell things that were just more rosy than they were.
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