Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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As a chef, I've always loved the M&S approach to food, from the sourcing to the standards. It's the kind of attention to detail that really matters in a kitchen. It's food made with purpose, and that's something I can really get behind. I'm Mark Moriarty, and this is Roasted. Let's get into it. My final guest of the season is the mercurial Ivan Yates.
Over some steak and mash, he shares his thoughts on everything from the mainstream media, the presidential controversy, why he fears for his grandchildren's future, to his predictions on Trump and the economy, and what he plans to do next. Meat, potato, and veg. Are we on air? Oh, we are, yeah. Oh, sorry. That's okay.
I assume now, a man of your stature, it would be all fine dining, restaurants, champagne, caviar.
No, I actually abhor all that pretentious s***. That's my job. Well, the story is that eating out is problematic to me because of my back. And as I speak to you now, I'm kneeling. And therefore, if there's no bench seating, I will not sit in the conventional chair, no matter how nice it is. So that's grand. But if you're actually...
After 40 minutes in pain, despite medicinal alcohol, you know, it's just not a lot of fun. So paying a lot of money for that is not a good idea. Lots of friends in the restaurant sort of business, but RAI and all that kind of good stuff, but... To be honest with you, as I told you, I'm a most unsuited guest for this because I'm not into fine dining.
I'm into good nutrition and my whole eating habits are bizarre as far as I never eat breakfast unless someone has paid for it and insists that I eat it. But I normally just have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea, alternating starting with tea and moving on to coffee. Try not to eat lunch and then have one meal in the evening time at whatever time is available.
And so I remember Gareth Fitzgerald when I was starting in politics used to these nationwide tours on elections and he regarded fuel, you know, food is just refueling. And so I'm of that genre insofar as that the Ponzi pretentious stuff, you know, give me a break. But, you know, for those who do enjoy it, good luck to them.
So I get a house wine, get plenty of that into me, get it into you, Cynthia, and basically... Useless customer in a restaurant. Well, the point is, you know, wine is fine, but with liquor it's quicker. So I just, I enjoy, I enjoy going to a pub. I would eat pub grub. I would eat whatever. But... Basically, I would be quite price conscious as well. You know what I mean?
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Chapter 2: What are Ivan Yates' thoughts on the mainstream media?
Insofar as that on a previous discussion with a news talk, I had to tell you about some of the ripoff factors with wine and so on. So I'm still of that view. But no, I... You were quite intimidating. But I do like, I do like... So say I'm zonked and I come home at eight or nine o'clock at night, get the train in or whatever. I actually enjoy the cooking programs. I actually know it does drive me.
Oh, this is so simple, so simple. And then, you know, you can see the little dishes of this all prepared and that prepared. They spent hours preparing it. So it's only two minutes here or there. But it's like when you're a minister and you have all the minions to do the Well, no, yeah.
But the point about it is that I actually find the very relaxing cooking programs and they've, you know, developed a good entertainment thing. And, you know, look, you've seen it the same times over and over again. It's like the books. But anyway, it's all good. What do you drink? Oh, absolutely quite conventional in my drinking. A couple of pints of Guinness followed by a bottle of red.
And that would be absolutely my staple diet. And if I got all my nutrients and vitamins and everything from alcohol, I'd be a happy guy.
So going back through the years in your political career then, there must have been some serious nights out.
Well, there was different degrees of it insofar as the different stages of my life. But yeah, I was surrounded by some proper drinkers that wouldn't be sated by the... Leinster House bar and they would end up in Joy's or, you know, there was a Leeson Street strip in those days. But like I'm now 66 and that is, I left politics in 02.
So that was sort of in my 80s and 90s, which seems like a long time ago. But, you know, but like this, I wouldn't say that, you know, I was, you know, particularly noted for that. But certainly I always believed in being sociable.
Go back to your childhood. You were one of the youngest ever elected TDs at 21. Yeah. So where did the political inkling come from?
Well, first of all, it didn't come from any family background. My father died in 79. And if he hadn't died in 79, he had terminal cancer. I wouldn't have stood for the local election because he was anti-politics. Probably was a Fianna Fáil voter, but really wasn't involved in politics in any way.
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Chapter 3: Why does Ivan Yates fear for his grandchildren's future?
And so I was very committed, but I had no real game plan. And just the balls fell for me, got onto the urban council, and then within three years I was in the Dáil. or two years, actually, in the Dáil, because I was just in the right place at the right time. Wexford went from four to five seats. Fine Gael were, you know, this was Gareth Fitzgerald in 81.
They won 20 extra seats after the kind of Jack Lynch and 77 disaster and all that kind of thing. So I was just really lucky. And what would your dad have said? Well, put it like this. He didn't have any say in it, but he put it like this. Like everything, if you do something and it's a success, everyone says, oh, that's a good idea. Like if it's a disaster, you know what I mean?
You know, what do they say? That failure is an orphan and success has many parents. So I'd say he would have been his best friend, an executor of his will. Des McAvoy's solicitor once told me to my shock, He was the council solicitor and everything that he would have been very proud of me. So I'm not so sure.
I think one of the things that makes people driven is when a parent dies young because you actually spend the rest of your life trying to please your father and you'll never succeed. And when I see a very driven person in politics or in business, I just say, tell me about your parents.
And nearly always you find a parent died when they were very young, you know, before they properly matured as an adult. And it makes them a driven person. What's the source of that drive? Well, the source of that drive is to please your father and to outperform hunger, ambition, that sort of thing.
So it's almost like a therapy piece?
Yeah, or you could be running away from something, you know, and I've done a bit of psychological stuff, psychotherapy in my time. And basically, I'm a great believer in the subconscious mind and what you can achieve. I should actually tell you, the main reason I'm doing this is that I have a book coming out in the autumn called The Game of Life. And basically...
So my claim to fame is I left school at 16, didn't sit the leaving cert. That was in 76, 50 years later in 26. So I've been in politics and media and business and still got my finger in a number of pies that everything I ever learned outside of a classroom environment is in the book as a kind of self-help book. And looking forward to that.
getting elected at 21 like the Ivan that sits in front of me now it strikes me would think maybe a little differently if someone came along at this age at 21 and say well what are you doing getting into this game what do you know about life
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Chapter 4: What are Yates' predictions for Trump and the economy?
And I understand politicians have to count and that's all good. But the reality is nearly everyone in the media, and they want to be loved, And you know what? I always say if you're setting up any business or if you're providing any service, just answer this question. How are you different? Because if you're the same and they're all the same, then actually you have no point to difference.
You actually the world would get on just fine without you. And so, and it's not just Ireland, but there is actually a mainstream media identikit that's there. Like, and if you look at people that had a contrarian view, they end up being more or less excluded. Now, I actually don't feel excluded. It's nothing to do with me, but I observe it with other people.
I would observe, let's say, with Owen Harris would have been a good example. Kevin Myers. Oh, sorry. All I want to... do is be informed and entertained. And I respect intellect, you know what I mean? And so basically they all have sort of monoculture of views. And you know what? That is why we're getting 17% spoiled votes. That is why people are alienated.
Like if you look at the print industry, it is dropping by 9% a year linear. It's just going online though, no? But sorry, on the minute they put a paywall, people won't pay for it. They want it for free, right? And even stuff that's fact-checking and disinformation actually is a point of view. They are not absolutely neutral. They have their own views on people. So I have fought all my life
to live and let live. I actually love diversity. I love differences of opinion. I like debate. So it's not that I resent that. What I resent is that they're all absolutely the same.
So what's the alternative? If you're packaging up the mainstream media as you listed there, is there a viable alternative on the other side of the aisle that people can go to? Oh, put it like this. Uh...
Well, the viable alternative is actually manifesting itself on social media. You can see it. Now, some of it is absolutely toxic. The protests, not the organizers of the protests, but some of the people who are kind of giving them popular support and so on, all tells you of an alienation.
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Chapter 5: How did Ivan Yates become one of the youngest TDs elected at 21?
And You know, so I like migration would be right top of the list. Right. There's an official view about migration and there's a private view about migration. And that was where the Gulf is widest. I could pick other things like put it like this. You take things like the minimum wage. So when I went to Spain for six weeks, right, I was shocked because I don't travel much.
I found everything expensive. So I lived there for, you know, Madrid, Valencia, the Costa del Sol and so on. In January, when it was out of season, everything from the forecourt to a cup of coffee to a meal was 30% cheaper. Airbnb. So this is not now, this is not America. This is euro for euro. And then you say, why is that? Why is that?
And you actually find that we have added layers of regulation. be it carbon tax be it rates be it minimum wages and so on and you know what we're going to wake up one day and someone is going to say jeez I don't think I do business in Ireland it's too expensive because it's actually getting worse and so therefore who do you hear in the national media saying that.
There is no narrative about that. And it's one of the biggest crises facing the country. And so we're all wallowing in these corporation taxes. We have huge fiscal surpluses. But that's from the decisions taken in the 90s and the noughties and the decisions taken between 2012 and 2016. And I see ferocious trouble ahead for Ireland. But on the flip side, we are considered at the moment successful.
A successful country.
We absolutely have been world leaders in finding the sweet spot of American investment in the EMEA countries. But those decisions were taken when we were in government. We did the 12.5% corporation tax, the IDA, but even... take the latest evolution of that, which is AI, right? There's 15 billion going to be spent in two years in Europe on AI.
And very little of it's going to spend now because we decided it's not enough electricity, right? Not enough electricity simply because we're not given the planet permission for pylons. In 2014, Airgrid wrote a report to say by 2025, we would have north-south interconnector, grid-west, grid-link going into cork. Not one meter of it's been built simply because of objectors.
And I could go the same to wind farms and so on, all good renewable stuff and all this kind of thing. So like the Galway bypass 24 years later is not built. So that is actually the complete cowardice of politicians who can't go to someone sitting in front of a bulldozer and say, get out of the f***. That's as simple as that. Whereas Spain, they can do that. And you know what?
We are going to, because we have lost all that leadership, we are drifting down. We now make decisions at the pace of Egypt. We have lost 40 places in competitiveness, both cost competitiveness, you know, and in terms of infrastructure development. And so, like, you know, at my stage of life, these things are not going to affect me, but it's going to affect the Ireland of 2040.
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Chapter 6: What insights does Ivan Yates share about political ambition?
But put it like this. Is there anyone in the whole of government sitting down and say, wow. You know, we actually don't need people to work on the revenue anymore. We don't need people to work in banks anymore. You know, and, you know, so what do we need people to work in? So there's no one even talking or thinking about it because we'll wait till, you know, disaster hits.
Politics seems to really annoy you now. No, no. Some of my best friends are politicians. In fact, when I'm looking for something to be done, the last person I go to is a politician because all they want to do is gossip and talk about who's who and what do I know and all this kind of thing. I really like the company of politicians. I think I understand them because I was one of them.
and I empathize with them. So no, no, no, no, no. My frustration is that we're coasting along as if everything is fine, but it's actually not a bit fine. It's going to get worse. And there's nobody calling that out because they might lose votes for calling it out, or they might have to actually do something about it, which might be unpopular.
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Speaking of leadership, 2001, you had the chance to be leader of Fine Gael and you left.
Yeah, yeah, no, because I had actually decided, so I got into politics at 21 and I said I will be out of politics at 40 and everyone said, yeah, yeah. And when at 41 I left, people said, you know, I said, this was, I was always good. I actually noticed that people who are leaders, John Bruton, Alan Dukes in my own case, even Bertie Ahern, their whole life was consumed by politics.
Politics to me was a vocation, a profession. It was really good to me, really appreciated my political career. But I found the media to be much more enjoyable, much more entertaining. I could say what I liked and do what I liked. That was the mainstream media you were part of. Yeah, exactly. At that stage. So no, I was given exceptional freedom by Newstalk in particular.
Like I remember when they asked... A scary place to go now, that studio. Yeah.
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Chapter 7: How has Ivan Yates' perspective on politics changed over the years?
How does the Trump thing end? Trump thing ends probably around the 3rd of November this year. There's 435 Congress. The full Congress has to be elected and 35 senators. And I think that he will be greatly diminished after that. And I would say that in the second half, there probably will be impeachment proceedings against him.
And the succession thing, be it Vance, Marco Rubio, family member or whatever, I think the Democrats will probably win next time. Don't hear a lot of answers coming. And this is one of the problems for the Democrats.
They know what they're against, but they haven't said actually what they're... Like, the Democrats built a collection of ethnic groups, female representation, equality groups, and built that coalition. And suddenly, middle America woke up and said, I don't want to be run by NGOs anymore. You know, I'm not in favor of a lot of this stuff. And so it was a backlash to that.
So where it's all going to settle down. But, you know, politics like economy runs in cycles. And once you understand that, like I used to always say, you know, I fought in eight general elections. The tide is coming in. You know, when I stood in 81. Tide was going out in 87. You know, you see, the tide went out for Fianna Fáil in 2011, came in.
It's sort of been going out for Fine Gael ever since. So, like, you've got to understand that. You know, the Tories and, you know, but now we're seeing something quite different. If you take UK politics, you know, that by-election recently, the Greens and Reform completely displaced both Labour and the Tories. So we're now entering such a level of fragmentation in politics.
that you're wondering, can anything actually get done? So put it like this, and Brexit was a sign of that. And so, like, I did an interview with Sean Mulrhyan recently, who has as much business in Ballymore in London as he does in Dublin. And he said that, you know, Brexit has cost, in terms of investment, incomes, 17% over a decade's time.
And they're in total denial about this because they're living in sort of migration, debate, and all that good stuff. But the fact of the matter is that plus the taxation of non-doms has driven 20,000 people who'd be buying nice apartments in London out of London. So, put it like this, you know, Brexit, Brexit just was, was just so moronic thing to do. You know what I mean? Talk about, like,
You know, in the same way as I say we have to live off the goods and services we sell abroad, like Britain actually diminished its opportunity, its investment, its trading and everything. They were never going to replace European trade with Indian trade or Australian trade.
So it's the only thing that matters. And I heard this from an American friend who's in business and I'm a US visa holder as well as other things. He said, once the economy is going well, nothing else really actually matters.
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Chapter 8: What are the challenges facing the Irish political landscape today?
But again, that became de rigueur, illiterate. So Gareth was... Ahead of his time. Yeah. John Hume, I once nominated him for People of the Year. What he did to build dialogue and genuine peace, put it like this, I do think he, you know, sort of Jerry Adams and Bertie and Blair got all the credit, but I think a lot of the groundwork was done by John Hume. And business,
Fergal Quinn I would definitely have him there very fond of Fergal definitely invite Michael O'Leary now all of these people are a pain in the ass in one shape or another but we both support Man City we're both big racing there's no such thing as a Man City fan it's There is, absolutely. There is, absolutely.
Since, well, I can go back to Malcolm Allison and I can go back to Dennis Stewart and all of that. The fact that we're in glory times now since the money arrived from Sheikh al-Mansur is definitely a new type of supporter. But I've been to Main Road and I've been to the Etihad and I'm very fond of City and I wouldn't miss any of their matches in terms of the TV and that. So put it like this.
Those are the type of people that I would... You said four, so I gave you four. What are you most proud of in your career? Oh, what I'm most proud of is my family. Like, absolutely. I am a very... Like, I have tried to create with the absolute help of my wife, Deirdre. We're married 40 years, but we have four adult kids. We have five grandkids.
They are all... Like, I think you rear kids to be independent. Yeah. Two boys, two girls, two in London, two in Ireland. I'm most proud of them. I'm most proud of what they stand for. And they like you? Hopefully not. No, they're not as eccentric as me. And sorry, I think if you're the son or daughter of someone who's high profile, you actually eschew the sort of more exposed elements of it.
And they value privacy in a way that I don't, really. But no, but certainly, like...
Deirdre's family the Boyd family had a real culture of a wedding coming up in August which is at our home and all that kind of thing so by far the most important thing to me is my marriage and my family that like it supersedes any type of work money or anything I forgot to ask you the four people at the dinner table what are you going to eat
we'll get some guy called Mark Moriarty to probably give him a one-er and hope for the best like I put it like this so I don't cook I can barely work the microwave and basically so I do the washing up I put all the stuff and I so we would have I'd say it's efficient your wash up routine now it is actually I can imagine everything
is clean and it has a spot I'd say no no it can it goes you know because you see I don't want to sit at the table anymore so I get up halfway through and I just work away and I meticulously do it and what's more then so I'm out of pain but basically we would have maybe 12 or 20 people of all ages because the grandchildren are all under 6 and you can imagine the bedlam that that is so like but that to me is the most important thing
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