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Chapter 1: What were the highlights of Leinster's Champions Cup semi-final win against Toulon?
Hello and welcome along to the RTE Rugby Podcast. We are deep into the business end of the season now. Champions and Challenge Cup finals are confirmed. Leinster and Bordeaux in the Champions Cup decider in Bilbao. Ulster and Montpellier to face off in the Challenge Cup final. Ireland versus France weekend to come at the San Mames Stadium in a couple of weeks time.
URC is back in focus for a couple of weeks though, but so much on the line with playoff spots up for grabs and two rounds to go. Connacht against Munster, the pick of them this weekend. Must, must win for Connacht. Also into the final couple of weeks of the Guinness Women's Six Nations, Hannah O'Connor will be joining me a little bit later on to look ahead at Ireland against Wales this Saturday.
Before that... No Bernard Jackman with me this week. Brett Igoe will be in studio a little bit later on. Johnny Holland is also on the line. And Johnny, it's just the two of us for the next few minutes. But as I said, Leinster into the Champions Cup final for the ninth time. 29-25 winners against Toulon. A nervy ending to a game that probably shouldn't have been nervy with the way it was going.
Bordeaux Beglet will be their opposition. 38-26 winners against Bath on Sunday. All the talk after that has been about TV directors. Let's start with Leinster, though. I feel like it was a game that nearly sums up their entire season. Closer than it should have been. Cards were in issues again. They appeared to be in control. Then there was a bit of a blip. The good stuff.
Let's focus on the good stuff, though, because some of their attacking rugby at times was very, very crisp. Andrew Porter got on the ball so much more than we're used to seeing him. And it was really, really destructive with it. Scrum obliterated Toulon.
And then also we'll talk about the discipline, which isn't necessarily a good thing, but the way they handled the two yellow cards was particularly impressive. And that ultimately probably was the winning of the game for them.
Yeah, I think the frustration with Leinster is they can be so impressive. Like I wrote about their class disrupted by their discipline and errors, you know, because up until the Jameson-Gibson Park knock-on, I thought they were so classy, like their entries were efficient. Had they scored there, I thought it was going to be just a complete and utter formality, but...
you know they they're definitely making things hard for themselves um and you could talk about all the different factors within that but i think the the positive spin on that is like they're not playing their best rugby they're um they're they're getting through anyway like and they're getting gritty wins and there's a lot of resilience that comes with that and and maybe they're going into the final with less expectation and people having to cut off them and and obviously leo's you know producing his narrative that the world is against them and you know for the last couple years they were
cruising at the finals and all the way on their shoulders and maybe you know they're um ironically this is probably their year isn't it but as you said there's so much good stuff within there um they're attacking rugby like they they clearly look for porter to get on the ball as well because i'd say i'd say he turned up in a couple of moments in the 22 but there was also a peel off a line out where he came from the front of the line out normally you'd see
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Chapter 2: How did Ulster perform in their Challenge Cup semi-final against Exeter Chiefs?
you know your jack conan getting on that but it was actually andrew porter they they kind of maneuvered it far so uh lots of positives in there um and then the other side of the coin like i know we'll speak about it in a couple weeks properly but like with bordeaux they're not exactly bulletproof either they're unbelievably talented but on the day they can have a couple of their own errors and they haven't lit up the top 14 either so it's not unachievable at all i think lengths are in a really good position despite some of the negatives around their game
The third quarter was where they really took a grip on the game. And specifically the first five, six minutes of the second half when they actually started it down to 13 players, five, six minutes later, once they actually got their players back, they had a man advantage when Toulouse were in the bin.
Chapter 3: What are the implications of Connacht's upcoming match against Munster?
But that was really down to... Just very, very smart work to start a second half. It was really interesting. Toulon, sorry, had obviously got that score with a few minutes to go before halftime. There was pretty much 40 minutes on the clock and Leinster got a penalty just inside their own half. They were down to 13 players and part of me was going...
are they going to try to do something here and I think Gibson Park smartly just took the ball took a tap and booted it out of play get back into the changing rooms and it was just a very very smart second half to play with 13 players Toulon tried to go a little bit wide too early to run it out of the 22 in the end it was a poor box kick from Ben White Tommy O'Brien comes up with a great catch
And then Leinster just hold onto that ball, build pressure for the next four or five minutes, get their try that they deserved for those few minutes of work. And from there, had Toulon at arm's length. And I know Toulon obviously came back, but they were coming back because they were throwing the ball around. They were making it fast and loose. Leinster took control of the game at that point.
I think that's the impressive part of their game.
Chapter 4: How is Ireland preparing for the Women's Six Nations match against Wales?
Even with 13, they were able to put structure on the game and absolutely dictate the physical proceedings as well. So not dissimilar to what I thought they did in the first quarter. The first and third quarters were where they won the game.
that's the huge positive of it because I think when they've got clarity on what they're doing and they've obviously got the individual quality as well to convert that, they don't need to do anything special. You can just see... Now, they've definitely tried a little bit in their attack.
You can see, like, after a first phase, they get around the corner, they've got a little bit of a different shape. There's an outside forward going hard and then there's the pot of three out the back and there's kind of all sorts of layers to that attack. I don't think we've seen...
enough kind of effectiveness in that like you see Hugo Keenan was detaching and they put the ball behind the forward to a pot at three I think it was Doris probably in the middle of it and then Keenan's coming on another hard line outside of that I don't think the timing of that is great yet I don't know how live they are but the structure and the amount of options that they have at the line you can see that they're trying to show different
kind of patterns and more options and more layers in their attack so a lot of it I think there's loads that they're building but you can only imagine how disruptive it's been you know we don't see half of it we don't get well I certainly don't get communication on half of like who they have available from week to week and imagine training can be quite difficult but the longer this season goes on and I know it's finite but the longer it could go on the more you'd see Leinster get cohesive I think which is why you know I'm sure they're quietly confident in the background but yeah as you said the third quarter was dominant but I think the
part of me around their defence you know I think they're getting very overly competitive like you see Doris who had a I've seen people say he had a 10 out of 10 game I can only call it you know 9 and a bit out of 10 because of the penalties like you know you can't he's just so disruptive in the breakdown which you know the invisibility cloak seems to have disappeared a small bit and he's getting in the way and then I thought the two defensive penalties one from Ringrose and one from Keenan they're not malicious at all like and they're slight timing errors I think it was said on commentary that um
for the Gary Ringrose one I can't remember who was inside him but you'd like for that person to have gotten a bit higher in their defence because he's looking to be aggressive and there's no reason why someone inside should kind of stay off and then the timing is wrong and they're hitting someone without the ball but it's split second stuff but at the same time there's probably five or six penalties within there that they've disrupted all their flow and all the good stuff gets kind of dampened by some of the disruption
Yeah, I'll put a pin in the... You mentioned Caelan Adaris. I'll put a pin in that because I'm going to talk about the discipline in a few minutes when Brad is here with us. And I think I would very much agree with you that Caelan Adaris did some absolutely brilliant stuff, but the discipline does come into it as well.
And it goes back with Ireland stuff as well and giving away penalties like that. On out half... My talk about Harry Byrne, since you're in a good position to talk about it at halves. It was a strange one for him because I thought he contributed so much to the good attacking play Leinster had, particularly in the first half, bringing the ball to the line. He was, you know...
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Chapter 5: What are the key issues surrounding Leinster's discipline in recent matches?
It's an exciting time to be involved with a club that's really well set up on and off the pitch. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how on-field discipline is managed behind the scenes at club and international level with professional teams.
One aspect of elite professional rugby that has changed massively in the last 10 years is the stricter enforcement of the rules and the introduction of safety-focused rules around dangerous play and head collisions. I would like if you could talk about the role of discipline in determining the outcome of many games at elite level.
It would be great to quantify all of the conjecture with supporting data or expert knowledge. I believe that having an extra man on the field is a huge advantage that most top teams are capable of exploiting across top-tier professional rugby teams. And we rarely see any heroic 14-man victories anymore.
Teams tend to put points on the board quickly once they get numerical advantage and in some cases forcing additional cards or even being awarded a penalty try on top of the card as the ultimate double jeopardy punishment. You mentioned the double jeopardy part there. I think that's actually quite pertinent this week when you think about Leinster already down to 14 players.
discipline still goes awry Harry Byrne follows into the into the bin as well we're actually seeing more and more of those yellow cards given out after the try is scored that seems to have crept in a lot over the last couple of years and Leinster and Ireland have caught themselves on the wrong end of that
Yeah, I think there was another card in the Bordeaux-Bath game, which was right on the score as well. The referee went back to it. Look, when you look at the stats at the end of the game, it shows Leinster gave away seven penalties. So you can walk away going, well, we were under the 10 mark. We've reached our KPI, which is great. The issue I have is when Toulon had that huge momentum,
We only gave away one penalty. However, there was actually five awarded when you actually go through it. So obviously the yellow card came for Porter's high shot. But if you go back again, there's three or four penalties before that, which the referee has warned. He's given Caelan a team warning.
And when the team warning comes in, you've got to just put the handbrake up and just go, look, we're not going to give away any more penalties. I thought the Harry Byrne one, he is offside. He's one and a half, two metres offside. And on a team warning, he left the referee with no choice but to give that yellow card. In terms of what goes on behind the scenes, the normal KPI is eight or less.
If we go back to those great all-black wins that Ireland had, we're giving away four or five penalties. That's in the whole game, which is an incredible one. But Leinster just seemed to, when the pressure comes on, when the opposition turn the screw... whether they're trying to quell momentum or whether it's just the pressure of it, they just can't handle it.
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Chapter 6: How can Ulster's recent success impact their future in rugby?
But, you know, your question on the captain, sometimes the captain will give away a penalty or two because they get so many moments across the game. The net positive is there to see.
Sorry to interrupt. Do you think a captain... nearly has a little bit of extra license to push a boundary a bit further than someone like Harry Byrne might be able to because they have that pre-existing relationship with a referee and there's a bit of give and take there? Just across the board, not specifically on Darius, but just across the board.
Yeah, I don't think it's the referee. I think what I was trying to say there really was that their net positive outweighs, you know, they end up with so many moments that most players kind of accept that they're going to probably cross the line at one stage or another.
And you kind of accept that because when the pressure is on and you can't see yourself winning a game, they come up with a moment as well and everyone's patting them on the back. So you're going to take the good with the bad. But at the moment, there's just one or two moments on the wrong side of the ledger for Caelan Dorris.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The frustrating ones for me are the ones he's given away are preventable. They are definitely preventable. There's even a time where he's half swung around the rook and he goes for the ball and Pierce just turns around and goes, no, can't do it. He actually compliments him and says, well done. And then he moves on and then he couldn't resist going for it again. It's so frustrating.
I'd say the coaching box are just tearing their hair out at this stage.
Like as coaches and analysts, when you're pouring over games afterwards and to go back on the penalty count itself, not being too high, how much, how much stocks you put into penalty count? Are you also totting up the penalty advantages that, you know, the three penalty advantages that led to one penalty?
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Chapter 7: What challenges does Munster face in their final matches of the season?
and then he gets down to towards the end of it but that's where you have to show some guts and courage and chase back at the end and that's just commitment naturally you try and protect things don't you when the other team is they've no protection they're throwing everything at you we were sitting in this room last time this time last year we were in that situation we were throwing everything at Northampton
Pollock gets a poach and it should have been a penalty but nobody wants to report it after we should have had a penalty try and no one wants to report on it you just want to kick the boot into us don't you we'll keep battling you know we know it'll be a tough final we're delighted to get there ourselves I have to applaud the players for their desire throughout the season to want to put themselves back in this situation to
Because you guys love throwing the boot into us, don't you? You love throwing the boot into us when things don't go well. Whatever sells because you read plenty of it. You'd love if everyone got behind the team now because you're up against the juggernauts of the game because it's not an easy thing to do.
Honestly, Brett, I'm not speaking on behalf of the whole Irish media here, but I would personally love to be talking about Leinster winning a Champions Cup because I'm absolutely sick of trying to figure out original ways of talking about them losing finals and losing semi-finals.
The idea that, I mean, I think a lot of people would probably say the Irish media are a little bit generous to Leinster.
Yeah. I've listened to it a few times and I can't actually work out whether Leo has got really thin skin all of a sudden which he never had as a player or never had in his early days as coaching because he's normally a very level headed thick skinned it's water off a duck's back sort of coach ah
And then I'm going, well, did he, is this just a deflection tactic to get everyone talking about this? Because this is what we're talking about now. We don't really talk, we're not, and most media outlets are talking about his, his interview that he gave. Um, Look, maybe he does feel like that. Maybe he does feel he doesn't get the rub of the green or the reporting that he deserves.
I would have thought that the Irish media are very complimentary to what Leo has done and what Leinster have done over the last number of years. Yes, there is a frustration around it, but the media have to report why Geordie Barrett and question Leo why he didn't actually start that semi-final. He has to question why Keane Healy started that semi-final and Porter was on the bench.
And there's a lot of... Like, it's the media's job to ask questions. You know, if Leo's a bit uncomfortable with that, he's probably in the wrong sport now at this stage. And that's why I just thought it was so out of character what he actually said. I don't believe for one second that the media aren't supportive of Leinster at all. I think the media give him a pretty fair whack.
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Chapter 8: How do the current performances of the Irish women's team compare to their rivals?
There's going to be some kind of an Irish winner of the Champions Cup anyway. We know that for certain. Anyway, that was Leinster. Ulster, though, they capped off a great day for Irish rugby on Saturday. They beat Exeter 29-12, booking their Challenge Cup final place. They'll be in Bilbao as well against Montpellier on Friday the 22nd of May and looking to end a 20-year wait for silverware.
Arsenal got back to a Champions League final last night, first time since 2006. Is that an omen for Ulster 20 years on from when they win it? They'll be hoping Arsenal lose the Champions League final just to complete that set. But they were under a bit of pressure coming in, Brett.
It was a bit of a sticky period for them, given the injuries they had forming the URC, a couple of bad defeats in a row. But that was a very, very professional and impressive win. First half was reasonable enough. It was a very close game. Ulster missed a couple of chances. But the way they just took control of it in the second half and ultimately won pulling up was very, very impressive.
Yeah, look, it's great for Richie and it's great for that Ulster project that's going on that he does get to that final that they haven't gotten in a number of years. The performance alone, I think Richie has a really, really strong 20 players. His challenge is going to be developing that next generation of player.
I know he's brought the likes of Jack through, but he's going to have to find more back rowers. He's going to have to find more front rowers.
probably he has to do something similar to what Stuart's doing in Connacht and start bringing these younger players through because like we saw that when his front line are rested and this is going to be his challenge over the next two weeks what does he do in terms of playing and he's obviously got a number of injuries to key players does he rest them up how is he going to approach these next two weeks because the next tier are probably not where Richie wants them to be and he's got to try and bring them up to that level
In terms of performance on Saturday, I thought they were brilliant. I thought they were absolutely brilliant. 9, 10, 12 and 13 were absolutely outstanding. And then the pack itself, like they were producing quality ball for Jack to attack off. I thought they were brilliant. The combination in the midfield is fantastic to watch. I really hope McCluskey's not out for a long term now.
Yeah, that's going to be a really tough one. So big injury doubts over Stuart McCluskey and Jacob Stockdale for the final. McCluskey is a hamstring injury. He was getting a scan on it according to Ulster's injury update yesterday. Jacob Stockdale, though, I think would be, I think you can say unlikely to be playing in a final at this stage.
He's going to see a facial surgeon this week for a fractured cheekbone, I think, or a facial fracture, at least I think is what Ulster said. So that's two huge injury doubts there.
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