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Science Friday

Listening for the cosmic ‘dark ages,’ from the lunar far side

23 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the LuSEE-Night mission and its purpose?

3.288 - 26.092 Ira Flatow

Hi, I'm Ira Plato, and you're listening to Science Friday. In early April, all eyes were on the moon, right, with the lunar flyby of the Artemis space mission, and they got an unprecedented view of the lunar far side. But researchers are working to put eyes on the far side of the moon in another way, by delivering a tiny radio telescope there.

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26.633 - 40.737 Ira Flatow

It's called Lucy Knight, and joining me to talk about it is Anja Slosar, science lead for the mission. Welcome to Science Friday. Hello, thank you very much. Anja, describe this little radio telescope for me, if you will.

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Chapter 2: How does the lunar far side enhance radio astronomy?

41.729 - 60.41 Anže Slosar

Okay, so we're putting like a small pathfinder radio telescope called Lucy Knight on the lunar far side. And really, it's a pathfinder. It's the simplest thing you can imagine that can receive radio signals from the outer space. So people have been dreaming about putting a radio telescope on the Moon because the Moon has a special property.

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60.71 - 80.641 Anže Slosar

Then on the far side of the Moon, you at the same time shield it from the Earth and shield it from the Sun. And that's supposed to make it one of the best observatories for the radio frequency observations in the entire solar system. And especially so at the very low frequencies, where basically observations from the ground are very, very difficult.

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80.701 - 90.079 Anže Slosar

If you go below 50 megahertz, observations from the ground, basically it's like looking up from the bottom of the swimming pool. Everything is blurred. It's a total mess.

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Chapter 3: What challenges do astronomers face with low-frequency radio signals?

90.211 - 98.361 Ira Flatow

So I should not be picturing this big, giant, Arecibo-type radio dish. We're talking about a demonstration project, a little project, right?

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99.262 - 117.402 Anže Slosar

Yeah, it's a little project. It's basically calling a telescope. In some sense, it's a misnomer, right? It has essentially four antennas, the four stick antennas like your portable radio. It's really more kind of radio receiver. It's like... FM receiver we have at home, but kind of a slightly lower frequency and can kind of see all the frequencies at the same time.

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118.103 - 138.662 Anže Slosar

So it will make very, very blurry pictures of the sky that we can then reconstruct to then turn into kind of like a low resolution map of how the sky looks like at these frequencies. However, having said that, it will be the first time in the history of humanity we're actually able to make any maps at this very, very low frequency.

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139.03 - 145.258 Ira Flatow

Now, there's been talk that it can see something called the Dark Ages signal. What is that?

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146.299 - 162.979 Anže Slosar

Yeah, so Dark Ages signal, it's something very exciting. I would call it like a platonic ideal or something where the field is going towards, something you'd want to see in, I would say, 50 years. So Lucianite will not see it, but it's a pathfinder for seeing Dark Ages, okay?

162.959 - 187.617 Anže Slosar

So dark ages refers to this particular epoch in the evolution universe where kind of this initial hot plasma, this soup of protons and electrons and so on has kind of cooled down enough that we have just neutral hydrogen and nothing more. And because it's so early that we have no stars, no stars have already turned on, this is a very, very pristine universe, right?

187.597 - 205.978 Anže Slosar

which we can explain just using fundamental physics, like general relativity, atomic physics, thermodynamics, stuff like that. We can make extreme precise predictions. Because once the stars turn on and you get galaxies and planets and so on, the universe becomes a very complicated place. It's like weather.

206.018 - 220.459 Anže Slosar

But before it starts its own, if you could measure that epoch, you could really make some really fundamental measurements of the universe. Now, unfortunately, as I said, Lucy Knight will not see dark ages because there are kind of foregrounds which are much brighter than this thing from our own galaxy and other galaxies shining.

220.9 - 236.588 Anže Slosar

But it will kind of enable us to basically demonstrate that far side of the moon is really as good as a place to make observations that people think it is, right? People have been thinking it's the best place to make these measurements, but nobody has actually done it.

Chapter 4: What is the significance of the Dark Ages signal in astronomy?

664.728 - 690.798 Anže Slosar

It's such a simple system. I can understand everything and I can go and... And really kind of develop low-level things without having to fight bureaucracy. But having said that, for somebody who has spent their career doing stuff on the ground, like the psychology of sending something to the moon is just insane, right? It's just very difficult, this idea. Now you're done.

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690.818 - 700.026 Anže Slosar

You're going to put it in the box and you're not allowed to touch it anymore. And if you messed up, well, you messed up. It's too late now, right? That's been new and kind of very, very difficult.

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700.006 - 723.137 Ira Flatow

Well, you're the pioneer. You're the pioneer in this. Right? Well, I wish you great luck and please stay in touch because we'd like to know when this blasts off and we'll keep track of it, okay? Okay, thank you very much for having me. You're welcome. Ange Slosar is science lead for the Lucy Knight Project. He's based at Brookhaven National Laboratory out there on Long Island.

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723.998 - 742.517 Ira Flatow

Thanks for listening. And you know, we're always looking for your ideas. Give us a call on the listener line, 877-4-SciFry. That's 877-4-SciFry. This episode was produced by Charles Berquist. I'm Ira Flato. We'll see you soon.

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