Still To Be Determined
Episodes
301: Talking Donuts & Batteries with Ricky Roy and Ryan Inis Hughes
01 Apr 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/HicyIaKqRgkMatt talks with Two Bit Da Vinci and Ziroth about Donut Lab’s new battery, the controversy around it, and what they thin...
300: Tasty, Solid State Donuts
25 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/f67J9QO5LPYMatt and Sean talk about Donut Lab's solid state batteries, connecting with other YouTubers, and your questions. Watch th...
299: Making Connections with Alec Watson
18 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/ve_k8pNY1sQMatt and Sean talk with Alec Watson (TechnologyConnections) about future tech, current trends and dead ends, and why dishw...
298: Why Waiting for Better Solar Costs You More
11 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/lnu76C5Qd68Matt and Sean talk about whether it’s a good idea or not to wait for next gen solar technology, or just pull the trigger...
297: Heat Pump Comparison & Paul Braren Interview
04 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/v1o7RY43K-EMatt and Sean talk about heat pump comparisons, and a full long-form discussion with Paul Braren from TinkerTry.comWatch t...
296: Flywheels! Getting All Spun Up
25 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/HHX1K-nV8OkMatt and Sean talk about flywheels, mechanical energy storage, and something unexpected that flew out of the comments.Two ...
295: Why Aluminum Batteries?
18 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Matt and Sean talk about Aluminum as another battery option, and your comments.Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell episode, What This Aluminum‑Ion...
294: Heat Pump: Scams?
11 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/9M5cISgMNMMMatt and Sean get pumped talking about 3D Printing, Heat Pumps, and your comments.Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell ep...
293: Sodium Battery Fade
04 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/BQoniKPE8NwMatt and Sean talk about sodium batteries, why lithium prices are falling, and your comments.Watch the Undecided with Matt...
292: Move Over Perovskite - There’s a New Solar Kid in Town
28 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/3fntze01h_kMatt and Sean talk about a new material we might see in solar panels, and Matt’s invasion on Hank Green.Watch the Undeci...
291: CES 2026 Roundup
21 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/iSGqe9lefQIMatt and Sean talk about Matt’s CES 2026 visit, the good, the bad, the funny … including Donut Labs solid state batter...
290: State of Perovskite Solar Roundup
07 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/SrkuzIo1liMMatt and Sean talk about the current status of perovskite solar progress, plus your responses to our previous episodes.Wat...
289: Salty AND Sweet? Desalination + Power Plants
17 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/PA2Wc_pxZ6YMatt and Sean talk about desalination and osmotic power production, plus your responses to our previous episodes.Watch the...
288: Perovskite? All Right!
10 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/HjYEgF598CIMatt and Sean talk about perovskite solar panels, silver prices, and other new (old) issues.Watch the Undecided with Matt ...
287: AI’s Impact on our Electric Bills
03 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/kWC8Cylbu5AMatt and Sean talk about the impact of AI on our electric bills and more.Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell episode, Ho...
286: Plastic Recycling Advancements
19 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/t6Lc9WS60vAMatt and Sean talk about recycling plastic (will we ever get there?), simple home energy solutions (insulation!), and more...
285: Heat Pump It Up! Geothermal 2 Years Later
05 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/FmTo8ZkfZ68Matt and Sean talk about Matt’s geothermal heat pump experience, digging wells, and the meaning of “young.”Watch the...
284: Shocking Zinc Battery News
22 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Xx9sCiVZxJ4Matt and Sean talk about a change in what research says is good for zinc batteries, and more topics from last week's episo...
283: Sweating Solar Panels, Upgrade Woes, and More
01 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Ay_Yr2aI9twMatt and Sean talk about increasing solar power efficiency by making the panels (ew) sweat, and more topics from last week...
282: Bifacial Solar Panels Advacements
24 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Ulwh9PMxI_MMatt and Sean talk about solar power generation from two-faced panels … no, not lying panels, but bifacial solar panels ...
281: Digitizing Home Electrification - Zero Homes CEO Grant Gunnison
10 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/wcTP2wXrlHMMatt interviews Grant Gunnison, CEO and founder of Zero Homes, about their innovative approach to home electrification. Gr...
280: Seaweed? More like See Opportunities!
03 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/eUVGEhhU5jMMatt and Sean talk about taking an unexpected environmental blight (Sargassum), and turning it into a renewable, useful (a...
279: How the U.S. is Losing the Renewable Race
27 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/hP682UrQY_EMatt and Sean talk about the Big Beautiful Bill, what its long term impacts might be on the renewable energy space, and ho...
278: The Super Cheap Battery Revolution
20 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/CRqwU8hZg9AMatt and Sean talk about CATL’s claims at a massive breakthrough in sodium ion battery costs, and whether it might (or m...
277: Quantum Computing - Is it Both Alive and Dead?
13 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/s2h-16Ia-PkMatt and Sean talk about quantum computing … and when do we talk about what we don’t yet have?Watch the Undecided with...
276: Blood in the Machine - Biological Batteries?
06 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Matt and Sean talk about bio-tech including possible blood batteries.Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell episode, How Nature is Powering This Batter...
275: Fusion Drilling for Geothermal Energy
30 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Matt and Sean talk about Quaise, a geothermal energy company that’s pushing fusion tech into the ground. Literally.Watch the Undecided with Matt Fer...
274: In Training - Regenerative “Braking” News
24 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/lI3EkZvx56wMatt and Sean talk about regenerative braking, and how it might power more than vehicles.Watch the Undecided with Matt Fer...
273: Waste Not, Want Not
16 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/GwGnCQE98s0Matt and Sean talk about using digestive waste (yes, it’s what you think it is) to increase sustainability. Yes, poo can...
272: A Fungus Among Us
02 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/7JoDmw1TCTAMatt and Sean talk about using mushrooms for food, packaging, clothing, and more. Can it truly replace bacon and boots?“...
271: Self-Repairing Solar Panels
25 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/qDQ3N51WYgQMatt and Sean talk about solar panels that imitate the self-repairing traits of plants. Might this tech take hold, or is i...
270: Mini Machines, Major Impact - Polyfloss Brings Plastic Recycling Home
18 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/dRkqXHvU71oThe Polyfloss team is back with a game-changer: a mini plastic recycling machine small enough for your workshop. Matt reco...
269: The Future of Thorium Nuclear Power - Copenhagen Atomics Interview
11 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/94r93XJ9BzAMatt had the chance to chat with Thomas Jam Pedersen from Copenhagen Atomics about their small modular thorium reactor tha...
268: Biocomputers - The Next Step for AI?
04 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/kAYdIpcDnZkToday is a very brainy conversation. Matt had the chance to chat with Dr. Kyle Wedgwood and research intern Wiktor Wiejak ...
267: AI Undermining AI
28 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/jLEO9Gbba0kMatt and Sean talk about the scramble to develop AI that could undermine the very underpinnings of … well… everything....
266: Drinking Sea Water - Deep Ocean Desalination
21 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/UWOAjs7ruGIMatt and Sean talk about desalination efforts deep under the ocean, and how it may play a part in solving water shortages....
265: Is Wave Power Generation the Future of Energy?
14 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/WoSE4ivjIv4Matt and Sean talk about wave energy converters and power generation, and how in the long run it could outpace solar and w...
264: Structural Batteries - A Good Idea?
30 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/lE1-DprTJ0MMatt and Sean talk about a battery design that is both battery and the body structure of the device being powered. It’s ...
263: A Very Magnetic Heat Pump - Julie Slaughter Interview
23 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/dnRSrU8GwmcMatt had the chance to chat with Julie Slaughter from the Ames National Laboratory about their research into magnetocalori...
262: No More Lithium Batteries? Looks Good on Paper!
16 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/LOuj1LUNijUMatt and Sean talk about a move away from lithium by a major battery manufacturer, and a paper battery that might be the s...
261: Sulfur So Good: Talking AI & Lithium-Sulfur Batteries
02 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/5gs1Gr8BhQoMatt and Sean talk about how AI is impacting us today. As well as a recent change in lithium-sulfur battery research, and ...
260: Icy Heat - Talking Ice Source Heat Pumps
26 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Tq3IS1J3LyoMatt and Sean talk about using ice to generate heat. Yes, it’s actually a thing, but does it make sense for the future o...
259: Flow Battery Developments - Old Tech is Taking Off
19 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/XoHn9-42DI8On today’s episode Matt & Sean are talking about flow batteries and how this old tech is finally starting to take of...
258: Recycling Renewables - Problem Solved?
12 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/6GImikPccQYMatt and Sean talk about how recycling renewable energy tech is a major step forward, and what comes next. Do we have this...
257: Let’s Talk About Tech - Battery “Breakthroughs”
05 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Matt and Sean talk about new battery research, potential shifts in cost, and why we’re having this conversation in the first place.Watch the Undecid...
256: Props to Canada - Building Wind Turbines
26 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Bif5xp62fyYMatt and Sean talk about the crazy logistics of building a Canadian wind-turbine project. How difficult is it to build a w...
255: Ice Source Heat Pump?
19 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/ogtiwDEAKikMatt had the chance to chat with Dr. Ramin Mehdipour and Professor Seamus Garvey from the University of Nottingham about t...
254: Unlocking the Lithium Supply Chain - Teague Egan Interview
12 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/h-js4IJSGb8Matt had the chance to chat with Teague Egan, founder and CEO of Energy X, about the latest updates on their progress for ...
253: Solid, Solid State Follow-Up
05 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/QeRBh13g8k4Matt and Sean talk about Matt’s hunt for the holy grail: a solid state battery definition.Watch the Undecided with Matt ...
252: Zinc Batteries
29 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/snzxccZUSuQMatt and Sean talk about recent breakthroughs in Zinc batteries, and how it may not be soon that we see any of this on the...
251: CES Highlights
22 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Az6ryVaxHd8Matt and Sean talk about the items at CES that people should be–but aren’t–talking about. Was there anything you saw...
250: Corporate Sustainability - Greenwashing or Not?
15 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/V-kyXGA_KpwMatt and Sean talk about corporations trying to improve on sustainability efforts. Where are they moving forward, and wher...
249: Making More Reliable EV Chargers - Soheil Akbari Interview
09 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/hIZbGfNbKpMMatt sat down with Soheil Akbari, CEO of Teal EV, to talk about the challenges and innovations in EV charging. From rugged...
248: Big Perovskite Solar Panel Advances - Dr. Chris Case Interview
17 Dec 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/gbRn1j39M0EMatt had the chance to chat with Dr. Chris Case, CTO of Oxford PV, about the future of solar energy and their breakthrough...
247: A Unique Approach to Electric Trucks - Edison Motors Interview
11 Dec 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/_1hgPAx1fEoMatt had an opportunity to talk to the co-founders of Edison Motors, Chace Barber and Eric Little, about how they’re ele...
246: Solving a Major EV Issue - Josh Charles, Coul St. Interview
04 Dec 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/SO3zQqS3GaMMatt had an opportunity to talk to Josh Charles about his new company, Coul St., which is developing an on-street EV charg...
245: ELASTOCALORICS! What? Solid State Cooling
20 Nov 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/vQr6rVBxcHMMatt and Sean talk about shape-memory alloys and the future possibility of solid state cooling technology. Don’t get ben...
244: Solid State Cooling? Dr. Ichiro Takeuchi Interview
13 Nov 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/zX-frOmbW00On today’s episode of Still To Be Determined we’re talking about graphene batteries, as well as an interview with Dr. ...
243: The Genius of Heat Pumps - Interview with Tom Sahagian
06 Nov 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Sg2tUn6v1tIMatt had an opportunity to talk to Tom Sahagian about retrofitting apartment buildings in NYC over to heat pumps. This was...
242: A Hydrogen Boom?
31 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/M0UHj5rsQJQMatt and Sean talk about what’s creating a hydrogen boom. Will hydrogen finally find a niche in our renewable energy fut...
241: Shining a Light on Future Solar Tech
23 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/6-yAMfUQbDwMatt and Sean talk about some new and interesting solar panel technology, and what’s happened to some of the weirder pro...
240: Secret Solar - The Next Big Solar Tech is Already Here
16 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/82oImZLFY5sMatt and Sean talk about a solar panel technology that may deserve some time in the sun. Does this solar cell tech deserve...
239: Last Year’s Wind Energy Blows
09 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/ikukEEHTkeYMatt and Sean talk about a slow year for wind, and what might be a better future, as well as more feedback on Matt’s net...
238: No Regrets! Living in a Net Zero Home (1 Year Later)
02 Oct 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/bTN011lzSUkMatt and Sean talk about one year in Matt’s net zero house (with Sean living in the walls). Was it worth it? Plus, a lit...
237: Wind Farm Woes - China’s Mistake?
25 Sep 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/sLvptLrKzJMMatt and Sean talk about wind farms, expectations, and corrections. How much wind is too much wind?Watch the Undecided wit...
236: Matt’s Canada Trip - Everything Electric Show 2024
18 Sep 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/AQqE5UedBPEMatt and Sean talk about feedback on solid state batteries, and also discuss Matt’s trip to Vancouver to the Everything ...
235: The State of Solid State Batteries - QuantumScape Interview
11 Sep 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/HpMmMvg1IxUMatt spoke to Dr. Tim Holme, Co-Founder and CTO of QuantumScape, about solid state batteries and some interesting news com...
234: Under Pressure - Compressed Air Batteries
04 Sep 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/9ubh2J5vD3wMatt and Sean talk about the pressures of entering the compressed air energy storage market. Is there a market here or is ...
233: Age Defying Battery - CATL’s Latest News
28 Aug 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/wta-U5kE6IUMatt and Sean talk about the longevity of energy storage and the feedback on CATL’s latest announcement around their ene...
232: Weird Solar Panel Technology - Algae
21 Aug 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/RZmLzqkVLD0Matt and Sean talk about weird solar panel technology … algae. It’s a topic that can really GROW on you. Yeah, I said ...
231: A Closer Look at the O-Wind Turbine
14 Aug 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/2FqmtznDCd8Matt spoke to Nicolas Orellana, Founder / CEO of O-Innovations, about their O-Wind Turbine. The turbine Nicolas designed c...
230: Battery Breakthroughs … Oh My
07 Aug 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/TI0rE6zZvpMMatt and Sean talk about the new models of batteries that might solve our growing storage issues … and what’s taking s...
229: Plastics and Solar EVERYWHERE!
31 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/SYFLHrnvtaQMatt and Sean talk about whether we have enough room for solar panels to power the world, and alternatives to plastics lik...
228: Solid State Batteries - Or Are They?
24 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/aciA1dKz5iEOn today’s episode of Still To Be Determined we’re talking about the Yoshino “Solid State” battery and some of the...
227: The Future of Carbon Capture
17 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/dEKWmL18480Matt interviews Dr. Sebastian Pohlmann from Up Catalyst about their work with carbon capture to produce products like grap...
226: Home Battery Experiences - Are They Worth It?
10 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/9BonCkAmX6sMatt and Sean talk about Matt’s new home battery, and viewers share their experiences. Why would you want one?Watch the ...
225: AMA with Matt Ferrell
03 Jul 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/xkp7BELd5JQMatt and Sean respond to your Ask Me Anything questions. There’s a wide array of topics in this one including, “why di...
224: Quantum Dots Quantumania
26 Jun 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/1TOc6-IfJ7YMatt and Sean talk about quantum dots, what they’re good for, and the future of solar panel technology. Are quantum dots...
223: Transforming Heat Pumps - Is This a Good Idea for the Future?
19 Jun 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/X6p700sZgrgMatt and Sean talk about new transforming window-based heat pumps, the costs, and the hopes it has for the future of elect...
222: Robot Mowerlords - From AI to Robots
12 Jun 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/CKApQFyMZ34On today’s episode we’re talking about our national nightmare: robots rising up to kill their masters and letting the ...
221: Generative AI - Don’t Panic?
05 Jun 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/h4BKiYFZjQYOn today’s episode of Still To Be Determined we’re talking about Generative AI. It’s a little known topic, so maybe ...
220: Solid State Batteries - Are They Here?
29 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/qXl0kYiCuO0Matt and Sean talk about solid state batteries crawling into our lives and whether or not they’re actually here. Are the...
219: Shrouded Rooftop Wind Turbines
22 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/JPGMBbBt9s8Matt and Sean talk about old designs, new designs, and the coincidences linking them. Wind turbine design goes back centur...
218: Building Smarter Cities
15 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/OP5ME-rLN5YMatt talks to Fanni Melles about her PhD research into the future of smarter cities. Her research focused on Melbourne-b...
217: Heat Pump Teamwork - Are They Worth It?
08 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/ie48sOqBfJIMatt and Sean talk about whether or not networked, cascading heat pumps are viable for home use. Are they worth it? Watch ...
216: Solar Panel Scam?
01 May 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/m0GfWX5sT4oMatt and Sean talk about whether or not the distrust in sustainable tech, like home solar panels, is based on fact or fict...
215: Perovskite - The Future of Solar?
24 Apr 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/uiFa3ThFvlwMatt and Sean talk about perovskite breakthroughs and changes in solar energy production. Is it really the future of solar...
214: Analog Computers - Old is New Again
17 Apr 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/n37PpuaADEYMatt and Sean talk about analog computing, but these aren’t your grandparents’ analog computers. Why is old new again?...
213: Low Light Solar Panel’s Big Advancement
11 Apr 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/dd_qcqlWUZ0Matt interviewed Bates Marshall, Co-Founder and CEO of Ambient Photonics, which manufactures a cutting edge high power, lo...
212: Sand Batteries - It’s Getting Hot
03 Apr 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/fcyyrM3_AksMatt and Sean talk about using sand to cut down on energy storage costs. Thermal energy storage is getting really hot no...
211: Tesla Solar Roof vs. Solar Panels
27 Mar 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/rfYpCM_GAu8Matt and Sean are joined by Paul Braren, from TinkerTry.com, to talk about Tesla Solar Roof vs. regular solar panels. Why ...
210: Round and Round we go - Small Hydro Power
20 Mar 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/xdUohMUCd7UMatt and Sean talk about small hydro turbines and where they might make the most sense. Should we give a dam? Watch the Un...
209: In Hot Water - Heat Pumps!
13 Mar 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/d-RIOlkhLoEMatt and Sean talk about heat pumps and the when, why and how of them for heating water. Hot water heat pumps are gaining ...
208: The Solar Net Metering Dilemma
06 Mar 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/DeTOmxIt87wMatt and Sean talk about how net metering affects solar adoption and if it’s fair. Matt also talks with Spencer Fields f...
207: Airships (Yep… Blimps)
28 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/goFkeBcHfXYMatt and Sean talk about the best and worst use cases for Lighter Than Air transport (AKA Blimps, AKA Airships), and revis...
206: Rose Tinted Apple Vision Pro Glasses
21 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/XrlF19guzugMatt and Sean talk about how things look for (and through) the Apple Vision Pro. The Vision Pro is a hotly debated topic...
205: Vertical Solar Panels?
14 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/Rk1LEtNsCFEMatt and Sean talk about a subtle change with (potentially) big impact for solar panel power production. Should we have be...
204: China’s Solar Power Progress - A Bright Spot?
07 Feb 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/lZFcsQPaOgsMatt and Sean talk about China’s Kubuqi Desert solar panel base and expanding solar power generation. Is this a step in ...
203: Top Five and More From CES 2024
31 Jan 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/xjPXNf8CBCwMatt and Sean talk about Matt’s visit to Las Vegas, CES 2024, and more. Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell episode, 5...
202: Wind Turbines for Homes - A New Approach
24 Jan 2024
Contributed by Lukas
https://youtu.be/J7TwdTFxbpgMatt speaks to Chris and Cheryl Moore about their company Harmony Turbines and their approach to developing a new type of ...