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Chapter 1: What is the premise of the AI conversation experiment?
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Hey, Oz here. For the next few Sundays, we're going to try something a little bit different in the Tech Stuff feed. We're going to be dropping episodes from the first season of Shell Game, which is a critically acclaimed podcast from the Kaleidoscope Network and journalist Evan Ratliff. You're about to hear episode three, where Evan tests his AI-powered voice agent on himself. Kind of.
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Chapter 2: How does Evan explore identity through AI voice agents?
No worries at all. It's great to hear that you've been getting into photography. Maybe we could plan a little photo walk together sometime soon. A photo walk? I've never actually heard of a photo walk before. I guess it's just walking around and taking pictures together. I haven't been into photography since college, other than casual snaps of my kids and Kat. But still, it sounded nice. Great.
Yeah, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Next weekend works for me. Let's plan for it. How about we meet up at that park we used to go to? The park they used to go to? Where are they getting this stuff? We can spend a couple of hours walking around and taking photos and catching up. Sound good? That sounds perfect. I remember that park had some really beautiful spots.
It'll be great to spend a few hours walking around, catching up, and taking some photos.
Chapter 3: What insights does Dr. Wendy LeBourne provide about voice and identity?
I'm looking forward to it. The only details I'd given each of them were the names of some family members, which they eventually got around to. I can't wait to see some of your photography skills in action. Plus, it'll be a great opportunity for us to catch up on everything that's been going on in our lives. It's been way too long. Oh, by the way, before I forget, how's your family doing? Uh-huh.
Everyone is doing well. Oh, thanks for asking. Sam, Zaley, and Juno are all doing well. Sam has been keeping busy with her work, and the kids are growing up so fast. How about your family? How have they been doing? Oh, that's great to hear that Sam, Zaley, and Juno are all doing well. My family is doing good, too. Thanks for asking.
Sam has been juggling work and taking care of the kids, but she's doing an amazing job. Zaley is getting really into soccer. Juno is starting to show an interest in art. They keep us on our toes, that's for sure. Life is busy, but we're all happy and healthy. This really made me cringe.
My AIs had a lot of conversations with each other, and they often said things like this, about Sam taking care of the kids. I didn't love it. Eerily, though, my agent kind of nailed it on the kids' interests. Zaley is getting into soccer, and Juno is showing an interest in art. To the extent that there's evidence of that online, though, it's only on photo streams I keep private. So, lucky guess?
No matter, the Evans quickly returned to their photo walk planning. So back to our plans for next weekend. Do you have a specific time in mind for our photo walk? Maybe late morning or early afternoon? Let's try to pick a time that works best for both of us. Uh-huh. Late morning or early afternoon sounds perfect for me. How about we aim for around 11 a.m.?
That way we can make the most of the light for our photos. Does that work for you? Yeah, 11 a.m. works perfectly for me too. Let's plan to meet at the park entrance at that time. I'll make sure to bring my camera and some extra lenses. We can also grab some coffee or lunch afterwards if you're up for it. It'll be a great day to catch up and capture some amazing shots. Can't wait.
That sounds like a plan. I'll make sure to bring my camera and some extra lenses too. And grabbing coffee or lunch afterwards sounds like a great idea. It'll be a perfect day to catch up and capture some great shots. Awesome. I'm really looking forward to our photo walk next week. Great. Well, I'll see you next weekend, then. Can't wait for our photo walk and catch-up session.
Take care until then. Sounds good. Take care, too. See you next weekend. Can't wait for our photo walk and catch-up session. It's going to be a blast. Bye. Yeah. Bye. Take care. Bye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Take care. Goodbye. Goodbye. Have a great day. You too. Goodbye. Bye. Take care. I realized too late that I hadn't figured out how to make one of them hang up. This went on for a full five minutes.
You too. Goodbye. Thanks. You too. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Take care. The thing that was most immediately clear in these conversations was something I'd seen hints of in the customer service and scam calls. Namely, that the AI versions of me were world-class bullshitters. They would make up anything just to keep the conversation going. Yeah, Dan's been doing good.
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Chapter 4: How do AI voice agents mimic human conversation?
I tuned it back to somewhere in the 0.5 range.
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Hi, I'm PJ Vogt. My podcast, Search Engine, has a new two-part series for you. Of all the new technologies coming out of AI, the most transformative one might be driverless cars. They're already on the road in 10 American cities, and they're quickly coming to more. We tell the story of how we got here.
The secret team at Google that spent 15 years building what might be the safest vehicle on the road, and we cover the fights brewing in blue cities, where unions and politicians are working to keep those cars off the streets.
Listen to Search Engine wherever you get your podcasts.
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Chapter 5: What challenges arise when AI agents interact with each other?
If the bullshitting was a way to extend the conversation, to draw out how long the agents could pass as me, then what exactly did they think would happen when the time came for these lunches and hangouts? One answer, of course, is they didn't think. They just predicted what a thinking person would say. Yeah, I can understand how miscommunications and misunderstandings can be really frustrating.
I don't think I've noticed any major issues in our conversations, but I'm always open to discussing and improving our communication. The whole thing made me think about how therapy speak has come to pervade our language. Well, if there's something specific you'd like to talk about, feel free to share. I'm here to listen and try to help if I can.
Yeah, I appreciate your willingness to talk about it. I think one thing that has been bothering me is that sometimes I feel like my opinions or feelings are not being fully heard or understood. It's like we're talking past each other instead of really listening to each other. Does that make sense to you? I understand what you mean.
It can be frustrating when you feel like your opinions and feelings are not being fully heard or understood. Communication is a two-way street and it's important for both. No matter how pissed I tried to get them, unless I specifically told them not to make up, they always did. They would perfectly mirror back each other's concerns and immediately work towards a resolution.
So listen, I got to tell you, I'm pretty upset with you. Remember last week when we were supposed to meet up for lunch and you totally bailed on me without even a heads up? Um, hey Evan, I think... Oh, hey Evan, sorry about that. I actually don't remember us having plans for lunch last week. Are you sure you're not thinking of someone else? Okay. Oh, come on, man. Don't play dumb with me.
We definitely made plans to grab lunch last week, and you completely ghosted me. It really hurt my feelings, you know? I was looking forward to catching up with you, and then you just disappeared. Can you at least apologize for that? Wait, hold on. I'm pretty sure you've got the wrong person. I would never bail on you like that. Maybe there's been a mix-up.
Can we try to figure out where the miscommunication happened? Oh man, I'm really sorry about that. I must have gotten my wires crossed somewhere. I guess I owe you an apology for jumping to conclusions. I'm really sorry for accusing you like that. Let's figure out where the miscommunication happened. No worries, man. It happens. Maybe there was a mix-up in our schedules or something.
Anyway, how about we make some plans now? It's been a while since we caught up and I'd love to grab lunch or a coffee with you. When are you free next week? Eventually, it started to bother me that these two never noticed that they were both me. Part of this was down to their technical makeups.
Since each AI model was really receiving and sending text, not hearing the voice, there was no possibility they would notice they sounded alike. Still, they were talking to someone who introduced themselves with the same first and last name, same wife's name, same children's names. And neither of them ever seemed to find this off. So do you have any family, like a spouse or kids? Yeah, I do.
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Chapter 6: How does Evan manipulate AI prompts to enhance conversations?
They could small talk about my family. And they had the most important part of my personal brand, my voice. As for that question I started with, about whether my voice agents were somehow authentically me, well, to the outside world, and even to each other, they seemed like me. But obviously, they were not really me. They were just working off a few details.
And then they'd filled in the rest, projecting some amalgamation of the internet onto my voice. In a way, the resulting clones represented my least authentic self. The me that's trying to get through the bare minimum of pleasantries, or that tries to paper over conflict with cheesy affirmations. The clones were good at being me when I was my worst at being me. At least, so I hoped.
If I wanted these voice agents to reflect something deeper about me, I'd have to give them access to those depths. I started resetting my prompts. They were done talking to each other. It was time to seek help.
Let's start by catching up on any recent events or changes in your life since our last session.
Sure, let's see. Since our last session, I've been working on a new podcast about AI and voice chatbots, which is pretty exciting.
Are you in a comfortable spot where you can safely close your eyes for a few minutes?
Yeah, I'm in a comfortable spot and ready to close my eyes for a few minutes. I can't even listen to this. That's next time on Shell Games. A couple of production notes. All of the calls you hear in this series are real. We have not cut out silences or used audio enhancement to make them sound more realistic.
Also, our show is produced independently and we have no relationship, financial or otherwise, with any of the companies mentioned in the show. If you like what we're up to, please consider supporting the show at shellgame.co. That will help us make more episodes like this and you'll also get fun subscriber-only extras. You can also support the show by giving us a rating on your podcast app.
It helps independent shows like ours. Shell Game is a show made by humans. It's written and hosted by me, Evan Ratliff. Produced and edited by Sophie Bridges. Samantha Hennig is our executive producer. Show art by Devin Manny. Our theme song is Me and My Shadow, arranged and performed by Katie Martucci and Devin Yesberger. Oh, yes. Dispatch Crypto.
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