That UFO Podcast
Richard Dolan: Is The Phenomenon Dark? | USOs, Alien Behaviour & Humanity's Future
18 Jun 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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so i i'm going to read you one listener question because i'm still going through stuff but this was what i thought was interesting and it was from Stumpy on youtube Stumpy said i always feel that Richard Dolan is holding something dark back he's literally the greatest of all time in this field but i get the sense at the core of whatever's going on here it's dark
not demonic dark but that we may be dealing with something that is bad very bad i don't know if that's a question but i'm curious what you and him feel about this it's speculation but a lot of evidence points to something that doesn't have our best interest in mind yeah i think that's actually uh kind of spot on
But I think the dark, the thing that I see that is dark is yes, there's reason to think that A, there are multiple intelligences that are observing and interacting with us. There's reason to think that some of those intelligences are not malevolently disposed toward us. But there is reason to think if you really wanna go down into the rumor mill, but sometimes you wanna do that,
There has been reason to think that maybe one group, at least one group, does not have our interests at heart. I think that's possibly true. But the group that I would be the most afraid of is literally ourselves. I think I'm more afraid of humanity than I am of any visiting group at this point. I think the reason that I have a dark view, and I guess I do, I just have to own up to it,
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Chapter 2: What dark aspects of the UFO phenomenon are often overlooked?
On the one hand, you want skeptical voices. You always want skeptical voices on a study like that.
if nothing else look you have to have alternate opinions on uh on a body like that and it wouldn't it wouldn't be probably politically viable i'm going to guess if it didn't have some kind of skeptical position on there uh just i think that's probably the reality someone like schirmer i mean michael schirmer is a very intelligent guy uh but he as as anyone who follows
him as known, when you become a publicly
acknowledged person in your field it's very difficult actually to change your opinion publicly on almost anything because you develop your own audience and i say that for for people who believe in ufos like myself as much as anyone you you establish a kind of a public turf and uh and then you become kind of committed to that for my part i have always tried uh sometimes successfully sometimes not to break free of expectations that people have of me in my own beliefs
And I've gone through my own journey, my own road. Michael Shermer is more established as a skeptic. And I think he probably – I have a feeling and –
Well, I want to be careful what I say here, but I think a lot of skeptics privately are more open to this phenomenon than they may publicly say, because they have a public position that essentially requires them at this point in their lives to act and talk a certain way. But I don't know that they all believe this.
I don't know about Schirmer per se, but it wouldn't surprise me if he actually, if you had a couple of beers with him off the record, he might not saying I know this for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me that he might have a different opinion. So I don't really know what I think about that. What I think is important for a team like that is that it'd be genuinely multidisciplinary.
I suspect that it is. And I'm glad Gary Nolan is part of that. Gary Nolan, I think is a, is a good presence on this. His opinion is he doesn't really care what political leaders have to say about disclosure. The only thing I care about is can it be discussed in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, like this reality. And I think that's actually a very intelligent position for a scientist to take.
So I think that's a good thing to have him on there. What do you think about Schirmer's inclusion?
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Chapter 3: Why does Richard Dolan believe humanity poses a greater threat than non-human intelligence?
Small groups of folks are trying to get information out and they're finding massive pushback. So as part of it, we get a little bit of...
a little bit of something with the war.gov site with some of the ufo files dropping this to me could go either way is this something positive or is this these gatekeepers and the folks fighting back going do you know what yeah you're right let's take a bit more control of this narrative let's create a board we're in charge of this bang it's really both
I mean, think of any revolutionary group. Are they all sweetness and light? The French Revolution, they certainly went into crazy town. The American Revolution, you could find a lot of criticisms about the founding fathers. You could just say, yeah, they started a revolution so they could then take over and make money unimpeded by the crown in the UK, which was true.
uh not everyone's motives are for the you know absolute greater public good and that includes uh the uap insurgents that i i talked about um you know i i know the politics of many of those people and i certainly do not agree with a lot of the things that they believe uh i have a strong suspicion unproven that uh some people involved in that are probably trying to get uh
patents on technology that could make them a lot of money. But for that, maybe some UAP transparency would be helpful. Just saying, just a possibility. Not everyone's motives are sweetness and light. Does that mean that they should be opposed or that they're evil? Well, it just means that they're human. It just means that they're human beings.
I don't expect pristine motives from anybody, anybody, whether government or whether They're this group here. Everyone's always looking out for their own interest. And, uh, if, if that coincides with the demands of truth, then that's awesome, but it doesn't always do that. So, uh, I think, you know, I'm reminded of the title of one of Nietzsche's books, human, all too human.
And, uh, I, I expect that this task force or this advisory board is what it sounds like. Uh, I don't really see a lot coming out of it. I don't see a lot coming out of it, but it sounds like it's got a very vague mandate, frankly. And what is it exactly going to be coordinating? Are they going to have anything to do with future releases of declassified documents? It's really not clear.
If there's something viable that they can actually do, that could be a good thing. Most of those people in the group, I don't really know them. I have suspicions about, I would have suspicions about a lot of them, I bet, though.
Yeah, I think it's one of those time will tell in the next couple of days and weeks. I think folks like myself and yourself will be looking into this more as information comes out. And like I say, there's even just today more information coming out to say it looks more like a bigger organization with advisory groups coming off the side of it.
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Chapter 4: What historical USO cases reveal about underwater UFO encounters?
I've always been interested in USOs. I mean, who could not be? It's fascinating. It's inherently fascinating. And I looked into a couple of USO cases, I think around 2022, and I thought, this is really quite interesting. And I thought, where are these cases? They're scattered all over the place. They're scattered in all these different databases and books.
And I thought I would like to hunt them down and just see how many there are.
and that turned into that turned into my research uh and i you know there was a couple of uh a couple of databases that were useful uh some of them some of those databases no longer exist i was able to to do a rip of one of them before it completely closed down that was water ufo.net by the late carl feint he was a very good researcher on this Thank God.
Thank God I ripped his site because it doesn't exist any longer. So there's different sources like that and a lot of out-of-print magazines, out-of-print books. And I just collected and collected and collected. And what I started to realize, like this is a massive subject that –
hardly ever been treated in a serious way in book form a couple of books over the years not many not many at all and so i wanted to uh once i collected enough of the cases i just wanted to do a as complete a of of a treatment of them as i could and my main goal was I just thought it was a horrible tragedy that these incredible cases have nearly all been forgotten.
99% of the cases that I have in here have just been totally unknown. One or two, one or two were known. to even to researchers. So I thought they've just been lost. And when you visualize what these cases were, what these events were and how incredible they had to be to the witnesses involved, I thought, you can't let them be lost.
So I wanted to kind of give them a new life and write them out in a way that did justice to them and did justice to the witnesses who were there and to the people who investigated them at the time. And I thought that these stories should not be lost. That was really my motivation. Once I completed all of that, my wife, who always has good advice, gave me a bit of advice on this one.
She said, you know, it would be really nice if you had categories in front of every case, like a kind of a boil it down. Like this is what color was the craft? What did it do? Did it enter the water? Did it emerge from the water? What shape was it? And all of these factors. And I ended up going back over all of the cases and I extracted those facts.
And then from that, I created a large spreadsheet which I'd never created a spreadsheet before and this was a massive one. But I'm so glad I did that because by seeing those cases laid out that way, I was able to see patterns and I was able to engage in a kind of analysis
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Chapter 5: How do behavioral patterns in USO sightings change over decades?
It could be American. It could be Soviet. It didn't matter. It gets close enough, and then all the systems go offline. Sometimes, in some cases, one Soviet case I can think of, the engine, this is of a large warship. The engine died. The engine of the ship died while the object was nearby. Frequently, communications go down. Frequently, weapon systems go offline. So this phenomenon...
seemed to know exactly what it was doing. Sometimes when you look at cases of electromagnetic interference, we tend to think of it as a kind of residual effect of the craft, not necessarily intentional. But in my study of this, I think that it's very, very much intentional, that the EM is
is a tool perhaps you could even say a weapon but definitely a tool used by them to disable us while they were engaged in in observing us in the way that they wished so they they approach they shut down our systems and then when they're done they're done they just take off and they're gone uh this this happened so many times so many times i i really think um
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There's a lot of strong patterns.
One of the strongest patterns in the book is this repeated interaction between USOs and military assets. This book is not all military, most of the cases are still civilian, but aircraft carriers, destroyers, submarines, strategic naval facilities, like these appear again and again and again, not just American, but Soviet, primarily those two.
To me, the pattern suggests much more than accidental encounters, like these objects
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Chapter 6: What insights can be gained from the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt case?
Like whatever they are, they don't seem to be interested in introducing themselves to us, but they do seem interested in studying us. So, yeah, that's...
that and and aside from some of the just astonishing cases that blew my mind uh those are really the key things that i i think uh i would have to say out of this new book of mine in a minute i'm going to ask you just to give us a taste of one case but just before that something that struck me and i think we spoke about this in the original interview for the the previous book was the changing technologies and the the 60s through the 70s into the 80s
probably saw as big a jump in in maritime technology as maybe any other decades as somebody who's a complete layman i'm just looking at the cold war era submarines from the united states soviet russia and others just grow generally generationally almost overnight with nuclear powered submarines with the missiles on board becoming more advanced gps comes into play stealth technologies come into play so all these different warships and again not the civilian side but the military side
the water suddenly becomes a much more active place, a noisier place with all these signals and frequencies jumping about. Do you think that played a big part in the behavioral change of the phenomenon at the time? I do.
Yes, I do. I think you asked it very, very well. That's a really good way to put it. Like if you think of where human civilization was in the year 1900, so 126 years ago, that was the year that we had the first operational submarine ever. So we go from there. First time we're going into the water. And of course, by today's standards, not a very effective submarine, but it was the first.
And then shortly after that, we started developing sonar. during around the time of World War I. And then radio for above water communication. And then World War II, you start seeing large battleships and aircraft carriers for the first time. And then in the 50s, nuclear submarines that could stay under the water for months and months at a time.
So our capabilities just radically changed in just 50 years.
50 years so if you're them you you had to be thinking at the beginning of this period we have full run of the waters what can they do they hardly have the ability to go under the water and suddenly now they do these humans so it would have to cause an adaptive aspect to behavior if if there is an intelligence that was down there all this time which i think there was so uh they've had to adapt and i think they have to continue to adapt
Because now, I mean, I think the ship to nighttime operations, for example, one researcher pointed out to me, he said, well, yeah, it was in late 1960s that I think it was the keyhole satellite developed a very advanced optical capability, particularly during daytime, like of exceptional resolution.
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Chapter 7: How did Richard Dolan conduct his research on USOs?
But I searched a little further and I discovered that F.B. Newman was the pseudonym used by... By a man who was a u.s. Diplomat and a military historian and And I know that this was the guy And I just want to I'm gonna find this in my My book here. Here we go Robert door so He
his own wikipedia page he wrote like 70 books on military aviation he was an expert and uh and as a child as a teenager he used the pseudonym fb newman when he uh he had as a kid he had written to boeing and a bunch of other aircraft companies asking for pictures of their most advanced aircraft the fbi investigated him because they thought he might have been a spy
he just was a smart geeky teenager who was into aviation but they discovered that he used fb newman as a pseudonym uh because some letters with that name came out of his house and i said oh well so robert dore in this article that i was just showing you it's all based out of washington dc information like he's talking to this guy in dc and that guy in dc well robert dore lived his entire life in the washington dc area and uh and he would have been perfectly positioned as a diplomat to have connections
who could have given him a story that happened on the FDR in 1975. So he writes this out and what he wrote was the ship, and by the way, he accurately placed its position in May of 1975.
would not have been easy to do for a writer in the 1970s to know exactly where the where this aircraft carrier would likely have been that that type of information wasn't readily available but it was to him so anyway i what i think happened is that one of his contacts told him about what happened and that this craft emerged from the water circled around this aircraft carrier a couple of times and then went back into the water again and that was deciding
I think it is definitely a true sighting. And even though it was written under a pseudonym, even though none of this can be confirmed, there's no government release documentation on it. I firmly believe it happened. And I think I figured out like who the author of that was. So that was a pretty cool case. But one that was, I mean, there's a lot of cases that are almost disturbing.
It was a Soviet case. trying to think uh from i think 1970 late lake chronoskoia in kamchatka so that's in the soviet uh far east their pacific region there and uh but it was on the peninsula it was in a large lake very large lake so it was inland uh this was a scientific expedition expedition working on this lake i think that is the largest lake on kamchatka which is a very large peninsula
and they saw this very uh large unusual gray oval object simply emerge from the lake you know uh they report witnesses there reported that their boat engine feast functioning as the object appeared yeah no surprise uh it it rose silently above the water hovered for a little while and then just accelerated away after It departed, the engine came back online. It was a very isolated area.
And if I'm remembering correctly, I think it was this one, but it might've been a different Soviet case where in the aftermath of that, some people died very, very oddly within a year or so after the event. I think that might've been that case, but that was a very interesting case. There was another one,
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Chapter 8: What role does technology play in the future of humanity according to Richard Dolan?
So I definitely included that one. But there were others. I could toss out a couple of others that are... Not, you know, not military. There's one, everyone, or a lot of people in this field are familiar with the Pascagoula
uh mississippi encounter of 1973 it was a deduction case uh there's charles hickson and calvin parker they both since uh passed away they were fishing and they became aware of a strange craft nearby and humanoid beings uh took them and but that's not the case i'm talking about one week later uh in the exact same region
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uh the united states coast guard was called to investigate an underwater us okay said many people had seen it was this object that was somewhat small but it was maneuvering in this very bizarre way under the water guys are out there with their fishing boats and they hit it with their oar and it was it was a metallic sound the coast guard came out and they confirmed
this as well the two coast guard uh personnel were out there to respond to this they went out there they encountered the exact same thing they wrote this up in a report it was a very bizarre uso that did not behave i mean there were such things as as what are known as midget submarines and it is would not be impossible that this could be the size of such a craft but to
But to see how this thing maneuvered, at least by their own account, a submarine cannot maneuver. This thing was rapidly moving and then basically stopping and then maneuvering in ways and turning in ways in the water that a submarine just cannot do at all. According to what they said, this is what happened. So that was a very bizarre case. Let's see.
I'm trying to think of any others that are... There's the Colares Brazil wave of events in the late 70s. Yes. Yeah, so that's in this book here. And Colares is a place... This is where the Amazon River empties out into the Atlantic Ocean. Now, when I say the place, the Amazon River empties out over a vast coastal area in South America. It's not just one area. It's a massive...
a massive amount of fresh water emptying out into the atlantic all the time and carrying with it all kinds of silt and and biological material uh making that region of the world really biologically unique on many levels and very important ecologically but anyway in that region
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