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The Ancients

Emperor Diocletian and the Great Persecution

21 Dec 2025

Transcription

Chapter 1: How did Diocletian rise from humble beginnings to become emperor?

0.031 - 17.382 Tristan Hughes

Ever wondered why the Romans were defeated in the Teutoburg Forest? What secrets lie buried in prehistoric Ireland? Or what made Alexander truly great? With a subscription to History Hit, you can explore our ancient past alongside the world's leading historians and archaeologists.

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17.362 - 40.822 Tristan Hughes

You'll also unlock hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a brand new release every single week covering everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com slash subscribe. Hello, I hope you're well and welcome to the ancients as we are getting nearer and nearer Christmas. Now, we've got a very festive topic for you today. Only kidding, we don't.

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40.862 - 62.37 Tristan Hughes

We're talking about a Roman emperor who in fact, perhaps as well, the most infamous part of his story is that he persecuted Christians. So, yeah, he's a bit of a naughty boy in that regards. However, there's much more to his story than just the persecuting of Christians. And the actual persecution itself is very interesting to hear about, like why it was such a failure.

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62.35 - 84.492 Tristan Hughes

That's all to come in today's episode with the one and only Dr. David Gwynn. David, he's been on the show several times before. He's a fan favourite as well. He is the interviewee we had for one of our most popular episodes of 2025. That was the origins of the fall of Rome back in May. He's a fantastic speaker, really eloquent and gets the points across so well.

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84.912 - 116.843 Tristan Hughes

And I know you're going to absolutely love it. So without further ado, let's get into the episode. He's the emperor who brought one of the most turbulent periods in Roman history to its end. A man who came from humble Balkan beginnings and rose through the ranks of the Roman army to ultimately seize the purple. That man's name was Diocles.

117.664 - 135.837 Tristan Hughes

We know him better by his official imperial name, Diocletian. In today's episode we're covering Diocletian's story from beginning to end. We'll explore how he transformed the Roman Empire in the late 3rd and early 4th century AD, bringing it out of its 3rd century crisis.

136.858 - 158.35 Tristan Hughes

We'll explore the imperial reforms he oversaw, including how he ended up splitting power between four leaders, himself included. We know this ruler for today as the Tetrarchy. But we'll also explore the part of Diocletian's story that has greatly tarnished his legacy, the great persecution of Christians that happened during the later stages of his reign.

159.412 - 181.386 Tristan Hughes

This is the story of Emperor Diocletian with our returning guest, Dr. David Gwynne. He's such a fascinating figure, isn't he, Diocletian? Because he also comes right at the end of this turbulent period and it feels like he's central to the reforming, the transformation of the Roman Empire at that time.

181.726 - 198.504 Dr. David Gwynn

Yes, Diocletian is, as you said, unquestionably in the top ten of great Roman emperors, forever distorted by the fact that our Christian sources despise the man for the great persecution. But there is a reason why in Diocletian modern historical divisions.

Chapter 2: What significant reforms did Diocletian implement during his reign?

639.61 - 666.242 Dr. David Gwynn

So the empire has been pulled more or less back into its traditional shape. So it extends from Hadrian's Wall in Britain, down to the Zara Desert in Africa, out towards the Euphrates River in the east. So Diocletian has actually inherited an empire that is in a little better state than had this been 20 years earlier. That being said, all the frontiers remain uncertain.

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666.222 - 686.896 Dr. David Gwynn

The Persians are still a major threat to the east, as they have been right through the third century. There's turmoil on the Rhine and Danube. And obviously, if you come to power through what does look like a combination of usurpation, assassination, and a few skirmishes, you're going to face rivals. So it's internally very unstable and externally threatened.

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686.916 - 692.285 Tristan Hughes

And so what does he decide to do straight away to kind of consolidate his new rule?

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Chapter 3: What was the Tetrarchy and how did it stabilize the Roman Empire?

692.305 - 716.226 Dr. David Gwynn

Diocletian is clearly a pragmatic and highly intelligent ruler. That will come very clear right through his reign. And one thing that has become very obvious across the third century is the Roman Empire is too big for one man to easily control. If everything's stable, then fine, you can have a single emperor as the focus of authority.

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716.807 - 740.464 Dr. David Gwynn

But if you've got trouble in Britain, and on the Rhine, and on the Danube, and on the Euphrates with Persia, possible revolt in Egypt, one person cannot deal with all that. Diocletian needed to delegate. The problem, of course, is if you delegate authority, you're setting up a potential rival and it so easily leads to civil war.

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741.165 - 751.94 Dr. David Gwynn

And if there is one thing Diocletian is brilliant at, it is choosing who can he delegate to, who will work with him and create a structure that functions.

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752.081 - 757.148 Tristan Hughes

This idea of trying to find, if at all possible, someone who is just unquestionably loyal no matter what.

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757.128 - 779.63 Dr. David Gwynn

And the problem, of course, is you need them to be loyal, but at the same time capable of intelligent, independent judgment. And it is a marker of all the most successful leaders in history that they had the ability to identify the right subordinate. So Augustus, the first Roman emperor, does it with Agrippa, a brilliant soldier who doesn't actually want power for himself.

Chapter 4: What led to the Great Persecution of Christians under Diocletian?

780.11 - 806.193 Dr. David Gwynn

They're not easy to find, but Augustus found one. Diocletian... looked back to his own origins. He's not going to look for an ally in the old traditional Roman aristocracy, which he of course doesn't come from. He needs a soldier because this is still a military crisis. He needs someone who can work with him and who hopefully will also recognize that Diocletian is the senior partner.

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807.275 - 836.433 Dr. David Gwynn

He looks back to the Balkans. And interestingly, his basic criteria seemed to be he doesn't want relatives, he's not interested in creating some kind of dynastic setup, but he does want Balkan-born soldiers. So the first thing he did was share power. create, sometimes that's called the diarchy. It's a sharing of power with one other individual. His name is Maximian. He's another Balkan soldier.

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836.453 - 846.113 Tristan Hughes

Maximian, right. And does Maximian, does it feel almost like he will be Diocletian's best buddy? Almost Robin to his Batman kind of thing.

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846.093 - 869.78 Dr. David Gwynn

Obviously, a lot of our sources come from the imperial propaganda machine and so insist these people are so close such friends. In reality, they are going to work together remarkably well for the next 20 years. And in a sense, what's the classical pagan equivalent to Batman and Robin? Jupiter and Hercules. And this is actually the symbolism they use.

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869.8 - 893.695 Dr. David Gwynn

So Diocletian becomes Jovius, Maximian is Hercules. So they're both claiming divine strength, but there's a hierarchy there. Jupiter, the father, the oldest, the king of the gods, Hercules, the great hero. And when it is just the two of them, where do they base themselves? So where are you going to prioritize? Well, the greatest single threat is the Persian Sasanian Empire.

894.336 - 906.724 Dr. David Gwynn

So Diocletian stays in the east. Increasingly, although he does move around, using the city of Nicomedia, not that far from modern Istanbul, but on the Turkish side in Asia Minor.

907.525 - 931.75 Dr. David Gwynn

Maximian gets sent westward, because the most immediate single concern is the person that Diocletian had hoped would help stabilize the Rhine, and in particular Britain, has decided to set up his own miniature empire instead. This is Carusius. And so Carusius has seized power in Britain, Maximian's job is going to be to stabilize those regions. So where does Maximian go?

931.83 - 935.236 Dr. David Gwynn

He goes to Trier on the modern French-German border.

935.256 - 946.755 Tristan Hughes

So they're quite far apart. I mean, but how effective does this diarchy prove? Or does Diocletian, well, we already know the answer to this of what will ultimately happen. How long before he decides, actually, I need to divide it even further?

Chapter 5: How did Diocletian's policies impact the Christian community?

1093.064 - 1117.823 Dr. David Gwynn

He's another successful soldier. And Galerius, the fourth member of the Tetrarchy who's going to work with Diocletian. Because the idea of the Tetrarchy is not four equals. Sharing power with one other person who has the same high title of Augustus, that was traditional. To have four Augusti... There would not be a precedent for that. It would also be very unstable.

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1118.424 - 1145.799 Dr. David Gwynn

So the tetrarchy is not for equal people. Instead, these next two, Constantius and Galerius, are given the title Caesar. As so often, the titles, of course, go back to Julius Caesar and Augustus. But the Augustus is the senior, The Caesar is the junior. Constantius goes westward. So Constantius will be the Caesar to Maximian as the Augustus. Galerius stays in the east. He's Diocletian's Caesar.

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1145.819 - 1148.704 Tristan Hughes

And he's in Thessalonica, is that area, northern Greece?

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1148.724 - 1172.56 Dr. David Gwynn

And then it's a case of where do you send them? Right. So step one, Maximian, interestingly, pulls back towards northern Italy. from which he can watch the Rhine and the upper levels of the Danube, Constantius' job is Britain. Sort out this revolt of Crausius and Electus, he's going to do that. Galerius and Diocletian, interestingly, don't follow such a clear-cut geographic pattern.

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1172.54 - 1195.554 Dr. David Gwynn

Diocletian's chief residence is Nicomedia in modern Turkey. Galerius has indeed left us the very few remains of a great arch in Thessalonica in Greece. But it's also Galerius who gets the job of fighting the Persians. So Galerius and Diocletian, it's much more a who's looking after what sphere rather than who's going to be in which region.

1196.235 - 1204.482 Dr. David Gwynn

Diocletian is going to focus on the government, the economy, getting the internal structures working. Galerius gets the job of facing the Sasanian Persians.

1204.502 - 1217.093 Tristan Hughes

I was about to ask, going onto military activity, do we hear much of Diocletian's personal military activity once he becomes an emperor, once he becomes one of the Augusti? It sounds like then we don't really.

1217.073 - 1239.132 Dr. David Gwynn

No, he's clearly a highly capable soldier or he'd never have risen through the ranks in the first place. But like so many actually very good soldiers, his great strengths lie in logistics, in organization. He's clearly a perfectly competent military commander, but the only struggles we see him directly involved in tend to be subduing revolts like in Egypt.

1239.112 - 1263.147 Dr. David Gwynn

It's not in trying to win major battles. The same is true of Maximian, whose most famous major campaign was the attempt to win in Britain that fails. It does look like that one of Diocletian's criteria for the Caesars was these were going to be the men who were going to be active on the battlefield. So Constantius is clearly very effective and very efficient in suppressing the British revolt.

Chapter 6: What were the outcomes and failures of the Great Persecution?

1402.512 - 1425.65 Dr. David Gwynn

It was set up originally in the East, probably in Nicomedia, It was taken from Nicomedia, where it was under the Tetrarchy, to Constantinople. At some point after Constantinople's foundation, it can't have begun in Constantinople because that city had not been refounded in the Tetrarchy's time. But that is where the Crusaders in 1204 found it and took it westward.

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1426.151 - 1440.973 Dr. David Gwynn

We're as certain of that as we can be, not least because there's a foot missing from the statue that's in Venice, and the foot turned up when they were building the Istanbul Underground. No way. So we're pretty sure about the origins of this statue group.

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1440.993 - 1443.258 Tristan Hughes

They found the actual foot and they verified it.

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1443.298 - 1469.408 Dr. David Gwynn

They believe so. It certainly would fit with the rest of the statue group. But of course, what's the real significance of this? This is a group of four statues. They're two pairs, each embracing the other. They're dressed identically in military equipment. These are soldier emperors. But the four figures aren't actually totally identical because two of them have stubble.

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1470.687 - 1475.238 Dr. David Gwynn

Now, that's a Roman iconographic motif for seniority.

Chapter 7: How did Diocletian's abdication affect the Tetrarchy system?

1475.318 - 1476.641 Tristan Hughes

Seniority, isn't it?

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1476.822 - 1488.831 Dr. David Gwynn

And basically, the two who have their arms around the outside of the others are the two seniors. So there is that slight distinction, but otherwise, these people are identical.

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1489.013 - 1511.754 Tristan Hughes

It is such a striking statue, and I'm really glad we covered that. I mean, with Diocletian himself, so he's with the propaganda machine, it's this idea of concord and harmony with his fellow rulers. With Diocletian, of course, he's got very humble, modest origins, doesn't he? So is there attempts with things like coinage and so on to portray himself as having more legitimacy as ruler?

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1511.794 - 1512.996 Tristan Hughes

Do we get more of that?

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1513.128 - 1538.189 Dr. David Gwynn

It's a challenging topic with Diocletian. Most of what we've got in the material culture is using traditional imagery. So the coins we have draw on a traditional set of images. They don't add massive new titles. They are using traditional Language, so after Galerius wins against the Persia, the Persians, all the Tetrarchs can take the title victory over Persia.

1538.51 - 1544.687 Dr. David Gwynn

Likewise, when Constantius settles Britain, they all, even Diocletian, who never came near Britain, take that title.

1545.14 - 1571.957 Dr. David Gwynn

In some of our later sources, particularly the ones written around the 360s, so two generations later, you get an emphasis that Diocletian particularly loved imperial splendor, that he particularly wanted an ornate diadem, the right gems, purple robes, that he gave himself titles like Dominus. It's not actually clear from the contemporary evidence that there's a particular emphasis.

1572.237 - 1595.532 Dr. David Gwynn

There's certainly a stress on we are the true legitimate emperors, we have divine support, and religion is a key part of this ideology. But is it dramatically more marked than, say, Aurelian in the third century crisis? Actually, Aurelian portrayed himself in almost exactly the same language and with the same religious emphasis that there is a divine support.

1596.372 - 1612.558 Dr. David Gwynn

Like so many things Diocletian does, almost none of it is radical revolutionary. The Tetrarchy itself as a structure perhaps comes closest. What he's doing is taking things that already existed, but giving them new uses, new interpretations.

Chapter 8: What is Diocletian's lasting legacy despite the Great Persecution?

1730.804 - 1740.977 Dr. David Gwynn

At the same time, he also makes it very clear, something that Constantine will then continue, that you've got provincial governors and you've got local army commanders and they're different people.

0

1741.518 - 1744.702 Tristan Hughes

He likes divisions, doesn't he? He really sees divisions as the way forward.

0

1745.083 - 1770.585 Dr. David Gwynn

Exactly. So separate out civilian and military affairs. Again, it had been happening in the third century, but very erratically. Why is he doing this? Step one, smaller provinces are easier to control. So a local official is going to be unable to develop a major power base. It's also therefore easier for a local official to administer. smaller groups are easier to control.

0

1771.186 - 1793.602 Dr. David Gwynn

You do, of course, sometimes need to then deal with provinces as a group. So another layer gets added. Interestingly, given that the terminology will all be taken over by the Christian church, these are the diocese. And a Roman diocese under Diocletian is a block of provinces with one official over all the provincial governors whose title is vicarius.

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1793.742 - 1815.74 Dr. David Gwynn

Is the origins of the word diocese from Diocletian or is that too much of a stretch? It's not from the name Diocletian, but it's from this provincial division, just as the person in command of a diocese is a vicar. The title is actually vicarius. Because you need that layer now. If you've got so many provinces, there'll be some issues that it shouldn't go to the emperor.

1815.78 - 1832.17 Dr. David Gwynn

They should just go to one person who's dealing with four or five provinces. So it's going to have more of a bureaucracy, which obviously means more officials to pay. But on the other hand, it will be more efficient at a local level, easier to control, but also actually better for tax revenue.

1832.656 - 1852.257 Tristan Hughes

Is this also contradicting, though, one of those old supposed ideas of the Roman emperors of before him, that a Roman emperor should be available for anyone? I mean, obviously... realistically that's not going to happen, but this idea that actually a Roman emperor could be addressed by an everyday person if he was passing through kind of thing.

1853.158 - 1869.086 Tristan Hughes

Is that almost a transformation in that by, even though I said realistically that was never going to happen anyway, but is Diocletian making it almost official now saying that if you've got a problem... You don't always have to raise it with me. There are these people who I've given enough power to, to sort it for you instead of me.

1869.386 - 1890.895 Dr. David Gwynn

The old Roman model, which emerges with Augustus, the first emperor, in the first two centuries AD, is indeed that people should be able to send petitions through to the emperor. So Pliny the Younger famously does under the emperor Trajan, including Pliny's letter saying, I've met Christians, what do I do now? Hadrian, who traveled the entire empire, received petitions wherever he went.

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