The Archaeology Podcast Network Feed
Episodes
Chatting with Aaron Brien - HeVo 103
20 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
On this month’s episode, Jessica checks back in with Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), who you may remember from Episode 23 on Salish-Kootenai College’s ...
Ancient Fossil Finds and Mythical Creatures Part 2: The Bones of Heroes and Monsters - TPM 29
19 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
In this continuation of The Past Macabre’s exploration of fossils and myth, host Stephanie Rice examines how ancient cultures interpreted fossil dis...
Korg 70,000 B.C. - Screens 120
18 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Today we’re reviewing Korg 70,000 B.C. (1974), a children’s TV series about a Neanderthal family from Hanna-Barbera, creators of The Flintstones, ...
Getting a Doctorate in Ice Age Archaeology with Dr. Mckenna Litynski - Ethno 28
17 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
What if one of the most important technologies in human history wasn’t a spear, a stone tool, or writing, but a bone needle?In this episode of Ethno...
Pleistocene-Holocene transition and rock art with Dr Maria Guagnin and Dr Ceri Shipton - Rock Art 157
16 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by Dr. Maria Guagnin (Max Planck Institute for Geoanthropology) and Dr. Ceri Shipton (Australian National University) ...
Sokar: The Hidden Onion - DiA 08
16 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
How many layers does this falcon god go? Well, if it's the hours he's in the Duat, then it's 4 and 5. Sokar is a mystery, hidden away in the sands of ...
Field Notes: Magical Pasts - ABC 12
15 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Let’s start the new year off with a little bit of magic! In January, the book club theme is “Magical Pasts”, and so this episode our three hosts...
2025 Year in Review - Pseudo 177
14 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
It’s time for my annual end of the year review! Let’s remember the good times, the bad times, and the mostly-kinda-sorta-okay times. Thank you all...
The Rap Guide to Evolution - Screens 119
06 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
To kick off the New Year, we’re reviewing The Rap Guide to Evolution, a music album by Baba Brinkman which is... pretty self-explanatory, really. So...
Cavemen S1E9 Caveman Holiday - Screens 118
06 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Happy Longnight! Today is the December Solstice, and to celebrate we’re reviewing a very special holiday episode of 2007 sitcom Cavemen, based on th...
APN10 bonus recording (part 2) - Teabreak 44
30 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
To celebrate 10 years of the APN, Matilda joined the #APN10 live event on 24th November 2024 to record a very special episode called “Tea-break 20 Q...
APN10 bonus recording (part 1) - Tea break 43
16 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
To celebrate 10 years of the APN, Matilda joined the #APN10 live event on 24th November 2024 to record a very special episode called “Tea-break 20 Q...
Archaeology of The Witcher (Part 2) - Trowel 58
12 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Ash and Tilly are back on The Continent, silver swords polished, potions brewed, and trowels at the ready! After mapping The Witcher’s wild landscap...
More Than Mammoths & Bison: Wyoming’s Ceramic Traditions with Michael Page - Ep 33
11 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode of The Great Plains Archaeology Podcast, Carlton sits down with Michael Page of the Wyoming State Archaeologist’s Office to explore ...
Archaeologist’s Holiday Gift List - CRMArch 323
10 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Episode 323 is our Christmas Episode!! This week, our show hosts discuss their favorite archaeology field gear in hopes that they will get these items...
Timelines: Linking Petra, the Nazca Lines, and the Great Wall of China - TAS 319
08 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this “Timelines” episode, we connect three iconic sites built during the same era: Petra’s stunning rock-cut city in Jordan, the mysterious N...
Ancient Fossil Finds and Mythical Creatures Part 1: Here Be Dragons - TPM 28
08 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Throughout history, people have uncovered fossils and tried to explain them using the knowledge and stories of their time. In this episode of The Past...
Teenage Cave Man - Screens 117
07 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Today we’re reviewing the paradoxically and yet aptly named Teenage Cave Man (1958), the story of a 30-something teenage rebel who dares to break th...
Scandinavian Rock Art with Dr James Dodd - Rock Art 156
05 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by Dr. James Dodd, a researcher at Aarhus University and board member of the Scandinavian Society for Prehistoric Art....
Archaeologists don't dig dinosaurs! - ABC 11
04 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, the bookworms dive into December’s theme: Archaeologists Don’t Dig Dinosaurs! With Judith off sick, Tilly and Ash are left unsupe...
The Silurian Hypothesis: Does it Actually Contain Lizard People? - Pseudo 176
03 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
After uploading a quick video on Instagram about the top two stupidest pseudoarchaeology stories of all time, the one and only Flint Dibble said that ...
The Archaeology of Stone Tools - Tea Break 42
02 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode Matilda is diving far back into the earliest depths of human history to discuss when we first developed our love of stuff. From chimpa...
Archaeology of The Witcher (Part 1) - Trowel 57
28 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Ash and Tilly set out on an archaeological survey across The Continent—the dark, layered world of the The Witcher! From the ruins o...
Revisiting the Jones-Miller Bison Kill Site with Amy Gillaspie - Plains 32
27 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Carlton sits down with archaeologist Amy Gillaspie to revisit their shared time working with the remarkable Jones-Miller Bison Kill S...
Archaeology and the 2025 Section 106 Hearings - CRMArch 322
26 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Then we discuss the recent Section 106 hearing held on October 29, 2025 by the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources: Full Committee Hearin...
Resurrected Funerary Spaces Within the Grand Egyptian Museum - TPM 27
24 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
After two decades of anticipation, the Grand Egyptian Museum has finally opened and it is wonderful in every sense of the word! In this episode of The...
Prey (2022) - Screens 116
23 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
This week, by popular request, we are reviewing Prey (2022), a prequel to the Predator franchise in which the eponymous alien hunter meets his match o...
Joseph Williams and AI, 3D Mapping, and Celestial Pictographs - Rock Art 155
21 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by Joseph Williams, founder of Seven Fires Corporation, to explore how Indigenous knowledge, AI, and 3D imaging inters...
Book Worms: It Belongs in a Museum! - ABC 10
20 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s time for the second part of the Archaeo Book Club discussion for the November theme “It Belongs in a Museum!” Book club admins Ash, Judith,...
Mysteries Unearthed With Danny Trejo: Have I Sold Out (Yet Again)? - Pseudo 175
19 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Mysteries Unearthed with Danny Trejo is just beginning its second season. One of the Expert Presenters on the show is me, Super Important Doctor Profe...
Revisiting With Ayana Omilade Flewellen - HeVo 102
18 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
After more than 4 years since they recorded Episode 60 (Historical Archaeology for the Future) together, Jessica checks back in with Dr. Ayana Omilade...
The Voynich Manuscript with Dr Lisa Fagin Davis (part 2) - Tea-break 41
18 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s part 2 of Matilda’s chat with expert paleographer Dr Lisa Fagin Davis, as we dive deeper into the fascinating research that has been done on ...
Neanderthal DNA, Prehistoric Crayons and Early American Sailors - TAS 318
17 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
There’s a lot of Neanderthal research in the news these days and the first two articles highlight some of those achievements. The first article refe...
Conserving the Honmoon (Part 2) - Trowel 56
14 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Ash and Tilly are back with art conservator and supernatural sleuth Jessica van Dam to finish unraveling the mystery of the haunted artefacts from the...
Prey (2022) Review with Jacquelyn Sparks - Plains 31
13 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
For this episode, Carlton discusses Prey (2022) with Jaquelyn Sparks. They dive into themes of the film, including likes and dislikes, beavers, horses...
Government shutdown and CRM - CRMArch 321
12 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
On today’s podcast, we talk about the ongoing Federal government shutdown and its impacts on CRM and academia. We discuss the complications that ari...
Sunken Cities Part 4: The Lost City in Nevada - TPM 26
10 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Stephanie is joined by special guest Virginia Lucas, curator and archaeologist of the Lost City Museum for a look at the history of T...
The Lost World: Jurassic Park - Screens 115
09 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We’ve dug too far! We overshot the Stone Age and hit the Dinosaur Age again! Today we’re joined by palaeontologist Joe Wood to review The Lost Wor...
The Dogs of Mesoamerica with Zac Lindsey - Ethno 27
08 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode David sits down with Zach Lindsay, a Mayanist archaeologist and board member of the Institute of Maya Studies, to explore the intersec...
Set the Cult Leader? - DiA 04
07 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Exploring the complicated history of the Egyptian god Set and how he’s portrayed in Stargate SG-1.ContactFollow my BlueSkyFollow me on Instagr...
Dr Douglas Beauchamp and the Rock Art of Oregon - Rock Art 154
07 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by Douglas Beauchamp, an arts consultant and photographer based in Oregon, whose work explores the enduring power of r...
Thor in Stargate - DiA 03
07 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Thor's alien nature is not just influenced by the alien, but also by the God and by the cultural background from whence he comes. A thousand years can...
Field Notes: It Belongs in a Museum! - ABC 09
06 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We're embracing our Indiana Jones stereotypes this month at the Archaeo Book Club with the theme “It Belongs in a Museum!” But what does actually ...
Art Bell and the Coast to Coast AM Radio Show - Pseudo 174
05 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Back in the 90s, I would often take late night drives between the San Francisco Bay Area (where my parents lived) and Santa Barbara (where I went to c...
The Voynich Manuscript with Dr Lisa Fagin Davis (part 1) - Tea-break 40
04 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
This episode, Matilda dives into the world of medieval manuscripts, accompanied by an expert in manuscript studies and palaeography: Dr Lisa Fagin Dav...
News: Footprints, First Streets, and Prehistoric Pioneers - TAS 317
03 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We kick off this episode with our latest RV adventures before exploring three remarkable archaeological discoveries. First, we discuss newly uncovered...
Conserving the Honmoon (Part 1) - Trowel 55
31 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Ash and Tilly are tasked with investigating a mysterious box from the Jinu Preservation Society, but one artefact might be possessed! Luckily, their o...
Life Along the Trails: 19th Century Nebraska Archaeology Nolan Johnson - Plains 30
30 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, I sit down with Nebraska archaeologist Nolan Johnson to talk about his work uncovering and interpreting the state’s rich historic p...
Making Your CRM Job Better: Improving the Workplace with Shrewd Choices - CRMArch 320
29 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Today Heather and Andrew discuss how to improve the CRM workplace by asking for what you deserve while not going overboard. Thread the finest of needl...
Halloween Episode: The Restless Dead - TPM 25
27 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Around the world and throughout our entire written history, humanity has believed that the dead can return to the land of the living, even if only for...
The Lost Tribe (2009) - Screens 114
26 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We’re continuing spooky month with a movie that’s as confused about theology as it is about evolution: The Lost Tribe (2009) tells the story of so...
Horses (Part 3) The Pawnee, the Plains, and the Spanish Caribbean with Dr. Carlton Shield Chief Gover - Ethno 26
25 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this third installment of the “Horse Series,” David sits down with Dr. Carlton Shield Chief Gover to explore the intersections of Indigenous or...
The Portuguese Bench Panel Deconstruction - Rock Art 153
25 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
On today’s show, Chris Webster joins Dr. Alan Garfinkel to deconstruct a fascinating rock drawing panel at Portuguese Bench near Little Lake in west...
Book Worms: The Bare Bones - ABC 08
23 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Tilly is back to full health and so our three hosts are reunited in part two of their discussion about the October book club theme of “The Bare Bone...
Another Silly Symposium: Quest for Ancient Civilizations - Pseudo 173
22 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Uh-oh! The Quest for Ancient Civilizations conference is coming to Scottsdale in December and I haven’t gotten tickets yet! Where will I be without ...
Chance Ward FINALLY - HeVo 101
21 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
After being part of two panel episodes (Heritage Voices Episode 79: The Intensive NAGPRA Summer Training and Education Program (INSTEP) and Episode 92...
Pasts and Crafts: Book binding with Alexandra Sebire (part 2) - Tea-Break 39
21 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s part two of Matilda’s tea-break with Alexandra Sebire as the two chat about the traditional craft of book binding. In this episode, we dive a...
Three Decades of Nebraska Archaeology with Rob Bozell - Plains 29
16 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, I sit down with Rob Bozell, who served the Nebraska State Historical Society for more than three decades and retired as State Archaeo...
Sunken Cities Part 3: Thonis-Heracleion, the City of Commerce and Ceremony - TPM 24
13 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, we’ll explore the rediscovery and legacy of Thonis-Heracleion, a sacred port city that was lost beneath the Mediterranean Sea for o...
Legend of the Bog (2009) - Screens 113
12 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s October, and as is tradition, we’re reviewing scary Halloween movies this month! First up is Legend of the Bog (2009), a movie with just enou...
Remembering Jane Goodall with Primatologist Carson Black - Ethno 25
11 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Remembering Jane Goodall with Primatologist Carson BlackIn this deeply heartfelt episode, David speaks with Primatologist, Biological Anthropologist, ...
Recreating Rock Art with Stephen Townley Bassett - Rock Art 152
10 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by Stephen Townley Bassett, a forensic artist dedicated to preserving and recreating San rock art with striking accura...
Field Notes: The Bare Bones - ABC 07
09 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s time to dig up some old bones! In this episode, Ash and Judith have left Tilly in her sickbed to sift through the bones of history to explore t...
I Read “Sex is a Spectrum” and I’m Not Convinced - Pseudo 172
08 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I noticed some heated online arguments in the anthropology world about human sexuality, where several noted anthropologists recommended the book “Se...
Pasts and Crafts: Book binding with Alexandra Sebire (part 1) - Tea Break 38
07 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In today’s tea-break, Matilda wants to learn more about books, and takes a closer look at the development of notebooks and the traditional craft of ...
Mental Health - Trowel 54
03 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this slightly different episode, Ash and Tilly discuss the different ways that mental health is both affected by and perceived within archaeology a...
Digging Differently: Native Presence in Archaeology with Chance and Tyrel Part 2 - Plains 28
02 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
This episode continues my conversation with Tyrel Iron Eyes (Standing Rock Sioux Tribe) and Chance Ward (Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe). We turn to the s...
Are CRM companies too cheap? - Getting reimbursements - CRMArch 319
01 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
When it is okay to ask for a reimbursement for using your own equipment in the field? Today the hosts discuss the complexities of getting reimbursed f...
Sunken Cities Part 2: The Ancient Mysteries of Canopus - TPM 23
29 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
There’s so much info to share about Canopus that it needed a second episode!In this episode, we take a look at some of the myths and deities associa...
Phineas and Ferb - Screens 112
28 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Phineas Flynn and Ferb Fletcher are precocious STEM-minded stepbrothers trying to make the most of their 104 days of summer vacation. On today’s epi...
Re-imaging Libyan Rock Art with visual artist Shefa Salem al-Baraesi - Rock Art 151
28 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by visual artist Shefa Salem al‑Baraesi, a Benghazi‑based creator whose oil paintings re‑imagine Libya’s archa...
Horses (Part 2) | Horses in Early Contact North America with Cassidee Thornhill - Ethno 24
27 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode of Ethnocynology with David Ian Howe, I sit down with my good friend and former graduate school cohort member Cassidee Thornhill, Coll...
Book Worms: Melodies of Memories - ABC 06
25 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s part two of a discussion from our Archaeo Book Club admins talking about the current monthly theme of “Melodies of Memories”. This episode,...
Inside the Nervous System - ADHD 22
25 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode George takes us inside our own nervous system. For hundreds of millions of years our ancestors have survived unimaginable challenges a...
Peopling of the New World - Pseudo 171
24 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s time to talk about the hardest question in all of archaeology! This is something I get asked about a lot, plus there is a pseudoarchaeological ...
The Stones are Speaking: Gault Site Documentary - TAS 316
23 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
The Gault site is world famous for it’s Clovis and pre-Clovis occupations. It’s also famous for the dedication of the principal archaeologist, Mic...
The Archaeology of Notebooks - Tea-break 37
23 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I hope that you have a writing utensil handy, because you’ll want to make some notes for this one! In this episode, Matilda takes a dive into the or...
The Conference Saga - Trowel 53
19 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s conference season! To prepare for an upcoming meeting of the Extremely Obvious and Regular Society of Wizards, Ash and Tilly discuss their conf...
Plains Native Voices in Archaeology with Chance and Tyrel - Plains 27
18 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In the first of this two-part conversation, I’m joined again by Tyrel Iron Eyes (Standing Rock Sioux Tribe) and Chance Ward (Cheyenne River Sioux Tr...
Is Anthropology the Worst College Major? - CRMArch 318
17 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We’ve heard this so many times. Anthropology? What are you going to do with that degree? Our podcast today directly addresses the statement: Anthrop...
Bolivar Archaeological Project, Part Two - HeVo 100
16 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
This Heritage Voices episode features Ms. Betty Kimble and Mr. Howard Clark from Denton, Texas. In Episode 99 with Dr. Maria Franklin, Dr. Alex Menake...
Sunken Cities Part 1: New Discoveries from the Ancient Egyptian Port, Canopus - TPM 22
15 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
At the end of August, archaeologists announced extraordinary new finds from the sunken city of Canopus, located off the coast of Alexandria, Egypt. Fo...
News: Stone Tools, Ancient Taboos, and Shipwreck Secrets - Ep 315
15 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Chris Webster and Rachel Roden check in from the road before diving into a trio of fascinating archaeological discoveries. First, they discuss the sur...
The Armstrong and Miller Show - The Origins of... - Screens 111
14 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
The Armstrong and Miller Show (2007-2010) was a very British sketch comedy show featuring a recurring cast of characters, including a group of cavemen...
Horses (Part 1) | Hoof Beats with Dr. William Taylor - Ethno 23
13 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode of Ethnocynology, host David Ian Howe sits down with archaeologist and anthropologist Dr. William Taylor (University of Colorado Bould...
Māori Rock Art with Dr Gerard O'Regan - Rock Art 150
12 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode, Alan is joined by Dr Gerard O’Regan, a Māori archaeologist and rock art specialist dedicated to preserving the ancient artworks ...
Rio Bec and the Witz - DiA 02
12 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
The Maya in the Río Bec region in southeastern Mexico made some of the more intricate sculptural and architectural works. What is more amazing is tha...
Field Notes: Melodies of Memories - ABC 05
11 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It’s time to delve into our memories through the theme of music. This episode, Tilly, Ash, and Judith venture back in time, singing as they go! The ...
Debunking Graham Hancock’s Easily Debunkable “Debunking the Debunking Industry” - Pseudo 170
10 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Graham Hancock posted a 75 minute YouTube video about how people like me are frauds, but people like him are just poor, attacked heroes fighting for j...
Put the kettle on because we're back! - Tea-break 36
09 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
The kettle is boiled, the tea is stewing, and we’re ready to go! That’s right, Dr Matilda Siebrecht is back to join you onTranscript your tea-brea...
The Graffiti Palimpsest (Part 2) - Trowel 52
05 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In part two, Ash and Tilly continue their quest to help The Karnithril Collegium of Wall Lore record the disappearing graffiti of Thar-Vael! With expe...
Book Worms: Vikings! - ABC 04
04 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Join Tilly, Judith, and Ash as they dive into the July reading theme: Vikings!In this “book worms” episode, the hosts share their thoughts on how ...
Field Notes: Vikings! - ABC 03
04 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Join Tilly, Judith, and Ash in Episode 3 as they set sail into the July reading theme: Vikings!In this “field notes” episode, they share their own...
NAGPRA in Practice – Colorado’s Approach with Chance Ward - Plains 26
04 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode of The Great Plains Archaeology Podcast, host Carlton Shield Chief Gover sits down with Chance Ward, NAGPRA Coordinator for the State ...
The Hosts at Their Day Jobs: A Day in the Life of Andrew, Doug, and Heather - CRMArch 317
03 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Today the hosts focus their acerbic wit and wry humor inward as they explore a “Day in the Life.” What does Andrew actually do all day? What about...
The Hungry Ghost Festival: From Ancient China to Modern Celebrations Around the World - TPM 21
01 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Many different cultures from China and Southeast Asia honor the dead on the 15th day of the seventh lunar month during the Hungry Ghost Festival, also...
It’s the Pie episode! TAS 314
01 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this special “Strat Chat” edition of The Archaeology Show, we dig into the layers of history behind “pi” and “pie” in honor of episode ...
The Old Copper Culture with North02 - Ethno 22
30 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
In this episode of Ethnocynology, host David Ian Howe sits down with friend and creator North02 to dive into one of North America’s most fascinating...
Book Worms: Under the Sea - ABC 02
29 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Join Tilly, Judith, and Ash as they dive into the June theme, Under the Sea, from a literary perspective. They discuss how this watery theme lends its...
Field Notes: Under the Sea - ABC 01
29 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Welcome to the first episode of the Archaeo Book Club, now part of the Archaeology Podcast Network!Join Tilly, Judith, and Ash as they wade into our J...