The ATC Doublecut with Micah Woods

The growth ratio for consistent growth and nitrogen fertilizer adjustment with Jason Haines

10 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Jason Haines joined me for another #TurfMath episode to explain what the growth ratio is, how he uses it, and how he calibrates it. See this post for ...

Turf Math with Bjarni Hannesson and Jason Haines

07 Aug 2023

Contributed by Lukas

We discussed the ease of metric units and the utility of knowing some key numbers in turfgrass maintenance.We discussed this post: https://www.asiantu...

Using morning and afternoon VWC measurements to find the site specific crop coefficient #TurfHacks

31 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

One of the things you can do when you are able to express soil water content as a depth of water, and vice versa, is to express the water loss rate fr...

A soil water content turf hack

25 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For as long as I can remember, I've used the easy 1 mm = 1 L = 1% soil volumetric water content (VWC) relationship when converting between water use b...

I prefer sand topdressing amounts expressed as a depth

21 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I gave three reasons for my preference that sand topdressing amounts be expressed as a depth. One is consistency and standardization. Depth means the ...

Golf in Japan: maintenance staff numbers, rounds played, number of holes, and annual N rates

11 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Did you know Japan has as many golf holes as England, Scotland, and New Zealand combined? I visited 11 golf facilities in Japan and discuss some of th...

Grass gets this much PAR light in full sun (no clouds)

02 Jul 2023

Contributed by Lukas

For any date, time, and location, it's possible to calculate the amount of light grass would get in full sun. I describe how this is done, and show a ...

Coring three times a year with half-inch tines on bentgrass putting greens

26 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

A research article recommended two spring and one autumn hollow-tine aerification, supplemented by solid-tine aerification during summer, for creeping...

The shade effect of clouds, photosynthetically active radiation, and 2 PAR apps

24 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Clouds reduce photosynthetically active radiation by about 25% when you can still see your shadow. When you can't see your shadow, that's about 50% of...

It's tough to manage cool-season putting greens when ΔGP is less than 0

16 Jun 2023

Contributed by Lukas

This episode introduces ΔGP, which is cool-season grass growth potential minus warm-season growth potential. Too many days like that and you won't bo...

Transition zone putting greens, light, speed, zoysia, bermuda, and bentgrass with Mike Richardson

31 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Mike Richardson from the University of Arkansas joined me to discuss zoysia on putting greens, light requirements of different grass species, grass se...

Reflections on growth rate, nitrogen, and disruption, with Chris Tritabaugh

25 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I wrote a blog post that lists ten things I reflected on one day in relation to how I had changed my thinking about how much N, growth, and sand topdr...

A soil test extravaganza

21 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

This episode discusses three recent posts about soil testing (soil nutrient analyses), from what happens at the lab, to micronutrient test results.- B...

Blog post bombs of 2020 with The Talking Greenkeeper

14 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Joe Gulotti joined me to go through the list of blog posts that got the fewest views on the ATC website in 2020. There was turf tourism, turf hacks, s...

Terminology of turfgrass soils: total organic material (#OM246) and soil organic matter (SOM) with Brian Whitlark

11 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Brian Whitlark is the West region director of the USGA Green Section. We talked about total organic material testing of turfgrass soils. This is disti...

Potassium fertilizer could increase dandelions by 20x

06 May 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Dandelion (Taraxacum officinale) abundance can be increased by potassium (K) and lime applications. Adding K fertilizer when it is not needed by the g...

Using the standard growth potential (GP) equation allows direct comparisons from site to site

30 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I used to tell people that GP is just a number, and if they wanted to modify it to fit the way grass grows at their location, then go ahead and do so....

Is nitrogen rate connected to surface area disruption?

21 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

March in Japan is the start of cherry blossom season, and on golf courses there is a lot of aerification. I've noticed that golf courses in Japan gene...

All about the growth ratio equation for temperature-adjusted #ClipVol

10 Apr 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I explained what the growth ratio is and showed the equation used to calculate growth ratio. This simple equation takes the measured clipping volume a...

Growth ratio to predict clipping volume for any time of year

31 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

One of the common questions about #ClipVol is "what is a normal amount of clippings to get?" By using the growth ratio, it's possible to account for t...

Turfgrass growth rate and plant growth regulators with Bill Kreuser

20 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Bill Kreuser joined to answer all the questions I could think of related to plant growth regulators (PGR). We discussed re-application intervals based...

Cool-season turfgrass growth potential in Augusta in April and in November

16 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In 2020, I looked at the temperatures in Augusta during the April Masters Tournament week, and the temperatures in November during the re-scheduled Ma...

The USGA's GS3 for measuring putting green performance with Scott Mingay and Jordan Booth

03 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Scott Mingay and Jordan Booth from the USGA about the GS3 tool that measures green speed, smoothness and trueness of ball roll, and surfa...

Soil nutrient levels—especially in sand rootzones—can change rapidly

01 Mar 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Soil nutrient levels might change more rapidly than you realize. This has implications for whether nutrients should be applied as fertilizer, or not. ...

Five things to know about soil pH, and how to get the best fertilizer recommendations

23 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I recommend keeping the soil pH between 5.5 and 8.5 when you are managing fine turfgrass. This episode explains why that is the recommended range, and...

Soil test calibration and interpretation for turfgrass with Beth Guertal

17 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Turfgrass soil test interpretation and the fertilizer recommendations that come from that have been highlighted as "arbitrary" and "based on other cro...

Growth potential of turfgrass, the link to actual growth, and a further connection to N fertilizer with Bjarni Hannesson

13 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Bjarni Hannesson has been using the temperature-based turfgrass growth potential (GP) for ten years. We discussed how he makes use of it in Iceland, a...

The temperature-based turfgrass growth potential (GP) in words — not numbers

10 Feb 2023

Contributed by Lukas

The temperature-based turfgrass growth potential (GP) is a utility function that expresses the potential of temperature to affect shoot growth. Withou...

Spots of excitement—snow mold spots—in an otherwise boring potassium experiment, with Doug Soldat

31 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Doug Soldat is a professor in the soil science department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. We discussed a recent photo he shared showing dramat...

How to collect soil samples for #OM246 and #MLSN tests

24 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Detailed answers are at https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/soil-sampling-and-interpetation-questions-om246-mlsn/I also recommended these blogs/newsle...

Turfgrass Twitter in 2022 with Paul Hurst

16 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Paul B. Hurst joined me to discuss the Turfgrass Twitter 2022 analysis. Read more about that at https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/turf-twitter-analy...

The 10 posts no one read last year with Joe Gulotti

15 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Joe Gulotti joined me to discuss ten blog posts from the ATC blog that got the fewest views in 2022. It's easy to understand why some of these are on ...

How much N is in two tenths of a pound? A lot, or a little?

12 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed the philosophy behind this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/is-two-tenths-of-a-pound-of-nitrogen-a-lot-or-a-little/On a related t...

Fourteen of my favorite turf photos from 2022

09 Jan 2023

Contributed by Lukas

I showed photos from this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/flights-favorite-turf-photos-2022/Watch this episode at https://youtu.be/eZIzaF7g6...

Planning forward, measuring backward, plus a year end miscellany

30 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

These posts were discussed in this episode:https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/measuring-backwards-and-planning-forwards/https://www.asianturfgrass.co...

Total organic material testing (OM246) to measure how much grass grew underground

05 Dec 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This episode is about soil organic matter (excludes plant material) and total organic material (like it sounds). Blog posts and calculators discussed ...

Park Grass experiment photo gallery, fertilizers, and weeds in turfgrass

30 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Interactive Park Grass photo gallery: https://doi.org/10.23637/rpg5-plotphotos-01ATC blog post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/park-grass-photos/...

Is carbon the next frontier in fertilization?

18 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed this blog post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/is-carbon-the-next-frontier-in-fertilization/ Also this one, how much carbon and humus...

Coring (hollow-tine cultivation) as a growth stimulator, plus estimated N mineralization from SOM

03 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Is growth stimulation the real benefit of coring turfgrass? https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/coring-maybe-real-benefit-is-something-else/Organic ma...

Overseeding timing, early, late, and optimum, by delta growth potential (GP) with Larry Stowell

27 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

We discussed this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/overseeding-inflection/Larry and I previously discussed the turfgrass growth potential on ...

Why I recommend annual soil testing for professionally managed turfgrass grown in sand rootzones

24 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed these blog posts.low pH and annual testing: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/one-reason-why-i-recommend-annual-soil-testing-of-sand-roo...

Big picture implications of #MLSN, SLAN, & SPF phosphorus recommendations, plus cumulative #ClipVol

16 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This episode looks at these posts:https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/grass-clippings-year-to-date/https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/fertilizer-reco...

The most common soil testing mistakes, and how to avoid them, with Doug Soldat

11 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

We discussed these posts and articles.- My blog post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/the-most-common-soil-testing-mistakes-and-how-to-avoid-them/...

An alternative reference for frost delays with Jim Huntoon

05 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

An alternative reference for frost delays (https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/an-alternative-reference-for-frost-delays/) has links to all the articl...

Using the turfgrass growth ratio to adjust for site-specific conditions with Jason Haines

28 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Watch this episode at https://youtu.be/la1ulEIgVT0Jason Haines is the golf course superintendent at Sunshine Coast Golf and CC in British Columbia, Ca...

Why soil samples should be air dried before sending to the lab

25 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/reminder-to-air-dry-soil-samples/Subscribe to the ATC soil testing newsletter at https://su...

Turfgrass in Iceland, frost, 24 hours of golf, and #MLSN with Bjarni Hannesson

17 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Bjarni joined me to discuss this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/turfgrass-notes-iceland/See a photo gallery of turfgrass on golf courses in...

Grass color, consistency, and the oldest course in Thailand with Joe Gulotti

14 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Joe Gulotti joined me to discuss this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/turf-consistency-color/Find Joe's "The Talking Greenkeeper" podcast at...

Mowing stripes on tea, 18 turfgrass videos about greenkeeping in Japan, plus best lift access snow

12 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Mowing patterns in tea fields: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/stripes-after-mowing-not-just-grass/ 18 videos from a 2 week turfgrass tour in Japa...

Manganese deficiency, Doublecut show stats, and my New Zealand presentation highlights

04 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This episode discusses these four posts:https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/normal-manganese-levels-in-soil-and-turfgrass-leaf-tissue/https://www.asia...

Drought performance of warm-season grasses plus a KBC Augusta data review

30 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed recent research on drought performance of warm-season grasses: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/drought-performance-of-warm-season-turf...

Managing seashore paspalum "dry and lean" with Jon Wall, plus tournament prep in Vietnam

28 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

We discussed this post:https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/a-common-misapprehension-about-seashore-paspalum/Find Jon on Twitter at https://twitter.com...

Zoysia and bermudagrass green speed live from the KBC Augusta tournament in Japan

24 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Watch the 2022 KBC Augusta Tournament at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SC9_M_E8DMI discussed this post about zoysia and bermudagrass green speed: h...

A lot more than the average tournament, sodium/potassium ratios in soil, & golf rounds data

22 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I talked about these posts.More than average tournament: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/why-kbc-is-so-interesting/ Round numbers and closed days...

Posts no one read (but I wish they had): grass on the Kumamoto city tram lines with Joe Gulotti

14 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Joe Gulotti joined me to discuss the posts on my blog that no one read. In this episode, we discussed grass on tram lines in Kumamoto City. Here's the...

Golf course architect Paul Jansen and I debate the best golfing destination in Asia

07 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Paul and I discussed a number of locations around Asia including Da Nang, Thailand, Hokkaido, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Indonesia, and the Philippines, for ...

PACE Turf, turf textbook publishing, and the International Turfgrass Society w/ John Kaminski

31 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

John's Turfgrass Management book is available at https://turfpath.com/Turfgrass information and decision support tools at PACE Turf: https://www.pacet...

Frank Rossi and I discuss what I've called my "least favorite experiment ever"

27 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

My blog post about the experiment: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/least-enjoyable-experiment-ever/ Frank's Green Section Record article about th...

Andrew Thomson on remote courses in Japan, hickory golf, links turf, and "champagne golf"

25 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I spoke with Andrew Thomson about golf at remote courses in Japan, playing links golf courses with old golf clubs, hickory golf, and target golf creat...

Dollar spot and a predictive model, fertilizer recommendation survey, and light that's "missing"

20 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This episode discusses dollar spot and the Smith-Kerns model, making fertilizer recommendations as a ratio, and ranking locations for warm-season gras...

Achieving the desired turf surfaces by thinking backwards (or why reactivity can beat proactivity)

17 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed an approach to turfgrass management that involves considering the current turfgrass conditions and then deciding what to do. Read about a...

Zoysia on putting greens? Why?

10 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Chris Chase and I discussed zoysiagrass on putting greens and why one would use it. The post we talked about is https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/zo...

Zoysia seedheads and pitchmarks that last

03 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This episode discusses two posts. One is about Zoysia seedheads and the interesting and troublesome phenomenon of seedhead production for more than ha...

Trees, turf, and tropical tournament golf

26 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The post we discussed is https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/of-trees-turf-and-tournament-golf/, which considers which grasses work well in conditions...

Soil and water management: 3 problems (salinity, sodium hazard, & deficiencies), with solutions

22 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The post discussed is https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/soil-water-management-3-problems-with-solutions/. You'll find examples and links to addition...

Urea as putting green fertilizer for complete control of tournament greens

12 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The topic for this episode was fertilizer, and Andrew McDaniel joined me to discuss this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/how-to-spend-5000-t...

4 tools to measure putting green firmness

04 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The post discussed in this episode is https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/surface-hardness-correlations/. I planned to discuss this one also but decid...

Turfgrass rootzones: a carbon-rich, nitrogen-poor world

29 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Joe joined me to talk about one of the least read blog posts of 2018. This one, about soil microbes being in an environment with ample carbon, but bei...

Elemental nutrient ratios as fertilizer recommendations, and a trip to see zoysia greens in the USA

22 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I find it really useful to consider nutrient applications as ratios rather than as quantities. Read more in this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/...

Is the extra hole on Kawana's Fuji Course the best in the world? I think so. Plus, tropical #ClipVol

17 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Andrew McDaniel (https://twitter.com/drumcturf) joined me as a special guest on this episode to talk about the extra hole at Kawana's Fuji Course (htt...

Putting green firmness, speed, and roll quality at the Catalunya Championship

13 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The charts shown in this episode with Clegg, TDR, stimpmeter, and #BobbleTest scores are available in this blog post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/p...

Grass can grow too slow, plus Tom Cook's lawn and 2 tournaments in Spain

25 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

It is easy to know when grass grows too slow: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/dangerous-grow-too-slow/Tom Cook's extraordinary lawn (blog post): h...

Soil organic matter accumulates more rapidly in young greens with lower OM content to begin with

21 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This is an obvious concept but the implications are complex. If soil organic matter accumulates more rapidly in young soils, and if one wants to manag...

What if the soil organic matter was never there to begin with?

19 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discuss my visit to (and seminar at) the University of Florida, and consider whether soil organic matter content stability over time might be relate...

MLSN & "deficiencies", tissue test manifesto, & Ireland conference presentations

17 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discuss two presentations from the ATPI conference in Galway, Ireland, how one might think about soil "deficiencies" when doing soil test interpreta...

The Tale of Two Tests (for soil organic matter)

13 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discuss tests for soil organic matter, and explain the distinction between those tests and a different kind of test for total organic material by de...

A crash course in #OM246 and burn temperature

06 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This is the crash course post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/crash-course-in-om246-organic-matter-testing/Watch this episode at: https://youtu.b...

What's normal for OM2? (the total organic material at the surface of a putting green)

02 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discuss these blog posts.Whats normal for OM2: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/whats-normal-for-om2/Playability, putting green disruption, and s...

Bentgrass greens: average fertilizer supply vs. nutrient use

28 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The blog post with data and chart is at: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/fertilizer-supply-vs-nutrient-use/Watch this episode on YouTube at: https...

What's the deal with the variance parameter in the growth potential equation?

26 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This discusses how changing the variance value in the turfgrass growth potential equation will change the shape of the curve as one moves away from th...

Using temperature-based growth potential (GP) to evaluate and compare season length

12 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed using the temperature-based growth potential (GP) to make comparisons between locations. The chart with 33 locations around the world is i...

Soil sampling procedures for turfgrass: discussion & survey results

09 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discuss the 7 question, 2 minute survey, about soil sampling procedures for turfgrass, and I explain why this is an important topic that I've been p...

Two similar approaches to turfgrass nutrition with one notable difference

30 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This is about #MLSN and about the precision fertilisation approach developed by Tom Ericsson.The post I discussed is at: https://www.asianturfgrass.co...

Five comments (and my replies) about the OM246 Office Hours

23 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I gave a detailed answer to 5 comments about this Office Hours episode (https://youtu.be/J5_5mDJ-Vxc) about OM246 testing. The blog post I discussed i...

The remarkable effect of [just enough] traffic on an unmown lawn

16 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I showed photos of two lawns in this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/wonders-of-traffic-on-turfgrass/Watch this episode at: https://youtu.be...

Turf Twitter analysis, irrigation frequency and amount, & ATC content survey results

10 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I discussed 4 posts in this ATC Doublecut episode.Turf Twitter analysis in 2021: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/turf-twitter-analysis-2021/ The ...

The top 10 posts of 2021 plus the non-comprehensive awesome list

03 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

These posts are at:https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/top-ten-posts-of-2021/https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/awesome-list-2021/Watch this episode ...

Does organic matter vary from green to green by a lot, or by a little?

27 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

This is a direct link to the blog post discussed in this episode, including the charts showing organic matter variation from green to green on the sam...

The 2.5 hour OM246 discussion, distilled, summarized, and reviewed

22 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

The 4 minute read: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/office-hour-discussion-summarized/The 2.5 hour original video: https://youtu.be/J5_5mDJ-VxcWatc...

Zoysia, water use, and fact checking

19 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

I showed photos from a post on zoysia, water use, and fact checking, to show that when irrigation is restricted, and it doesn't rain---drought conditi...

One thing I'd like everyone to understand about MLSN

15 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

This episode is a discussion of this blog post and article: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/one-thing-i-wish-everyone-understood-about-mlsn/ Grass...

Soil organic material by mass and by volume

13 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

The volume of organic matter is shown in this blog post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/organic-matter-by-mass-or-volume/The video of this episod...

A potassium reserve in the soil: non-exchangeable and mineral K

12 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

I talked about this blog post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/potassium-reserve-in-the-soil/The Dest and Guillard article about the bentgrass gro...

Soil organic matter and N mineralization (with a 5x difference between Reykjavik & Bangkok)

10 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

This episode discusses the topics I wrote about in this post: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/soil-organic-matter-and-n-mineralization-bangkok-rey...

The growth ratio: is the grass growing faster, or slower, than expected?

02 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Grass growth varies by season. And a common question is "how much should I expect my grass to be growing?" The turfgrass growth ratio, conceived of by...

Zoysia on highway medians in Thailand

01 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

I discuss the standard practice of sodding highway medians with zoysia (manilagrass) in Thailand and why the zoysia does not persist. Photos at: https...

All you need to know about total organic material measurement (#OM246) by depth

01 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

I introduced this bullet list: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/soil-organic-matter-bullet-list/This is the OM246 project page with sampling instru...

Inertia as the force of inactivity, and a story about frost delays

01 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

The post discussed in this episode is about inertia: https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/inertia-as-the-force-of-inactivity/More about frost at https:...

How much carbon and humus are in the soil under turfgrass?

01 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

This is a description and narrative of the blog post about a popular topic --- carbon fertilizer and soil organic matter. The blog post is https://www...

Five years of sand topdressing adds up to less than I used to recommend in one year

01 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

This is a discussion of my blog post on sand topdressing amounts over five years, and how it happens that the five year total is actually less than I ...