The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2180 - IMMIGRATION FIGHT: Will Salvadoran Illegal Immigrant Return?
Wed, 16 Apr 2025
The White House’s stand-off with the judiciary over a deported Salvadoran illegal immigrant continues; Joe Biden returns from the dead to speak about dangers to Social Security; and the Trump administration discusses further measures against Harvard. Click here to join the member-exclusive portion of my show: https://bit.ly/3WDjgHE Ep.2180 - - - Facts Don’t Care About Your Feelings - - - DailyWire+: We’re leading the charge again and launching a full-scale push for justice. Go to https://PardonDerek.com right now and sign the petition. Now is the time to join the fight. Watch the hit movies, documentaries, and series reshaping our culture. Go to https://dailywire.com/subscribe today. Get your Ben Shapiro merch here: https://bit.ly/3TAu2cw - - - Today's Sponsors: Perplexity is an AI-powered answer engine that searches the internet to deliver fast, unbiased, high-quality answers, with sources and in-line citations. Ask Perplexity anything here: https://pplx.ai/benshapiro Birch Gold - Text BEN to 989898 for your free information kit. Bambee - Right now, get one month of Bambee for just ONE DOLLAR! Go to https://Bambee.com and type in 'Ben Shapiro' under Podcast to schedule your first call with an HR Manager RIGHT NOW! ZipRecruiter - Try ZipIntro FOR FREE: https://ZipRecruiter.com/DAILYWIRE Roman - To get $15 off your first order and find out if prescription Ro Sparks are right for you, connect with a provider at https://RO.CO/BEN - - - Socials: Follow on Twitter: https://bit.ly/3cXUn53 Follow on Instagram: https://bit.ly/3QtuibJ Follow on Facebook: https://bit.ly/3TTirqd Subscribe on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RPyBiB
Chapter 1: What is the controversy surrounding the deported Salvadoran immigrant Kilmar Abrego Garcia?
With me, the team behind the show, and thousands of people just like you. Head on over to dailywire.com slash subscribe to become a Daily Wire Plus member right now and chat with us. Alrighty, so the Trump administration is in the middle of a very hot fight with regards to this deported Salvadoran migrant. The deported Salvadoran migrant, whose name is...
Kilmar Abrego Garcia, you'll recall, had a deportation order on him. He was an illegal immigrant. And then there was a withholding order that suggested that he could not be sent back to El Salvador because he claimed that he had fear for his life, that he'd be killed in El Salvador because he's a Salvadoran migrant. And maybe he had gang ties and maybe he didn't.
The court said that the executive branch of the United States government had good cause to believe that he might in fact be a gang member, a member of MS-13. President Trump then declared MS-13 a terrorist organization. And so the idea now is that sort of retroactively, he becomes a terrorist because he was suspected of being a member of MS-13. Well, he was sort of accidentally deported.
He was not supposed to be on the plane because of that withholding order that said he was not supposed to be sent back to El Salvador. He was sent back to El Salvador. A district court found that the government had to facilitate his return from El Salvador back to the United States so he could have due process before we deported him again. That case ended up going to the Supreme Court.
Chapter 2: How did the Supreme Court rule on the deportation case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia?
And in a 9-0 order, the Supreme Court stated that the district court had the power to say that the United States government, the White House, ought to facilitate his return to the United States, but they didn't define the term facilitate. So here is what the actual court order said. It said, quote, the application is granted in part and denied in part subject to the direction of this order.
Due to the administrative state issued by the chief justice, the deadline imposed by the district court has now passed. To that extent, the government's emergency application is effectively granted in part and the deadline in the challenged order is no longer effective.
The order properly requires the government to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been properly sent to El Salvador. The intended scope of the term effectuate in the district court's order is, however, unclear and may exceed the district court's authority.
The district court should clarify its directive with any due regard for the deference owed to the executive branch in the conduct of foreign affairs. For its part, the government should be prepared to share what it has, what it can concerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of further steps. If that sounds vague to you, that's because it's incredibly vague.
So the government apparently under the Supreme Court order has a duty to facilitate his release from custody. But how exactly it's effectuated. how that doesn't infringe on the executive branch's ability to do deportations, that part is unclear.
So that's left the door open to the administration claiming, well, when you say that we need to facilitate, we asked the Salvadorans and they said no, so I guess that's us facilitating. And the opposite case would be, well, you do have a contract with the Salvadoran government to keep these prisons filled with illegal immigrants being deported there, criminally illegal immigrants.
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Chapter 3: What challenges does the government face in 'facilitating' the return of Abrego Garcia?
And so you could do more than ask. You could basically demand, and the Salvadoran government, under the terms of the contract, would have to return this person to the United States, not permanently, but while this person had a hearing before presumably that person was then deported again.
Well, now things are getting very hot because, as the case you heard was remanded back to district court for clarification, that very often happens. The higher court will say the district court, the lower court needs to look at it again and clarify what exactly they meant before we decide whether it was right or whether it was wrong. Well, now that case, which has been remanded back to a U.S.
district court judge, Impala Gines. That case is again in the news because Gines ran out of patience with attorneys for the DOJ at a hearing on Tuesday regarding the deportation and imprisonment of Kilmar Abrego-Garcia.
eviscerating their efforts to redefine the word facilitate from a Supreme Court ruling and instructing them to cancel their vacations to comply with a two-week inquiry into the matter. This is according to Mediaite. Abrego Garcia came to the United States illegally as a minor around 2011. His legal team says he was fleeing gang violence. He was living in Maryland with his wife and three children.
He was then sent to that maximum security prison in El Salvador. In at least three court filings, Trump administration officials have concluded that he was mistakenly deported. Now, the DOJ officials who said that have now been fired. So the Trump administration didn't like that they admitted in court filings that it was a mistake to send him back to El Salvador.
Junius had ordered the administration to arrange his return. The Supreme Court ruling then said what we said it said, that they had to facilitate. But what did it mean by facilitate? Well, now the White House is insisting that Abrego Garcia's arrest, deportation, and imprisonment were justified.
They called him a gang member and a terrorist, and they say that they have no power to actually get him back from that Salvadoran prison. Well, Gina said that you're not doing anything to facilitate. They said, you're not even giving us answers. Quote, to date, what the record shows that nothing has been done, said the judge, nothing.
She then added the court would have no tolerance for gamesmanship or grandstanding to thwart getting the answers it sought and scolded the lawyers to clear their schedules. She said, quote, we're going to move. There are no business hours while we do this. Cancel vacations, cancel other appointments. I'm usually pretty good about things like this in my court, but not this time.
I expect all hands on deck. The judge then granted the attorneys for the illegal immigrant the ability to subpoena documents, send interrogatory requests and subpoena up to two additional people to collect evidence about where exactly this guy is, what the government has done to secure his immediate return for more due process to the United States, and the rest. And then in the order...
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Chapter 4: How is the judiciary responding to the administration's handling of this case?
Defendants remain obligated at a minimum to take the steps available to them toward aiding, assisting, or making easier Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and resuming his status quo ante. The record reflects defendants have done nothing at all.
Instead, defendants obliquely suggest facilitate is limited to taking all available steps to remove domestic obstacles that would otherwise impede the alien's ability to return here. The fallacy in the defendant's argument is twofold. First, in the immigration context, facilitating return of those wrongly deported can and has included more governmental efforts.
Thus, the court can't credit that facilitating the order relief as limited to just domestic action. Second, defendants appear to have done nothing to aid his release from custody. So this raises a couple of questions. One is sort of the legal question and one is the political question. So the vice president of the United States, J.D.
Vance, went on X and put out the following statement related to due process, because there are people right, left and center who are saying, listen, this guy isn't going to end up in the country, nor should he end up in the country. But you do have to go through a process. And if you do the process wrong and the court says you did the process wrong.
You do actually have to facilitate his release back to the United States, not into the general population, but back to the authorities of the United States for more due process so we can check the boxes and then the guy can be deported again. And again, that's not a political thing.
There are people who are right and left and center who are all saying, yeah, this guy has to go, but you do have to actually fill out the boxes. You can't just randomly deport people. And then if you admit you made a mistake, then go, oh, well, no harm, no foul, whoopsie daisy. So Vice President Vance,
is taking the position that the administration is totally right not to facilitate due process in this particular case, essentially due to hardship. And this is one arena where I think that the administration would be – two things can be true at once. One, the administration should, in fact, deport this guy.
They should deport anybody who's connected with MS-13, anybody who does not have American citizenship, who's engaged in sympathy for anti-American views, engaged in action that is anti-American. The administration should absolutely deport all those people. We don't need more of those in our country. It doesn't matter your ethnicity. It matters your belief system and your activity.
Those are the things that matter when it comes to deporting people. And this administration has pledged to deport vast numbers of illegal immigrants on the basis that they're not here legally. That does not mean, on the other hand, that there shouldn't be due process because due process is something that is spelled out by the judiciary.
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Chapter 5: What legal and political implications arise from this immigration case?
I know you said that President Trump is looking at it, but can you explain to us a little bit more about how that might be possible?
We're looking at it. And when I have more for you to share, I certainly will.
OK, now, in reality, that's not going to happen, obviously. What's she going to say? She's not going to reject what Trump is saying out of hand. The reality is there's no legal basis for taking Americans and shipping them down to El Salvador if we don't have control of the prison system in El Salvador, at least contractually in some way. Now, that's the legal side of this.
And the question here is whether that legal fight is the fight that the administration wants to have. Maybe this goes back up to the Supreme Court and maybe the Supreme Court says, you know what? It's quite possible that the executive branch does have the power to curb due process here.
But by continuing to fight the judiciary sort of every step of the way, as opposed to facility, I mean, this is very easy. Just tell Bukele in El Salvador to return the guy, give him his day in court and ship him out again. But the administration takes the view. I get it. I get it.
This administration and the entire right has been conditioned to take the view that ever admitting a mistake or a course correcting is some sign of weakness. And I get it because the legacy media are willing to attack on any basis. Listen, I get why President Trump and his team don't want to admit any mistakes. I'll tell you what would be a mistake.
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Chapter 6: What is the position of Vice President J.D. Vance and the Trump administration on due process in this case?
Type in Ben Shapiro under podcast to schedule your first call with an HR manager right now. That's one month of Bambi for just $1. At B-A-M-B-E-E.com, type in Ben Shapiro under podcast. Sometimes it is better to just do the quick and easy thing and then move on to the actual priorities, because especially with regard to immigration, there are actual priorities.
However, here's what the vice president said on X. Quote, consider that Joe Biden allowed approximately 20 million illegal aliens into our country. This placed extraordinary burdens on our country. Our schools, hospitals, housing and other essential services were overwhelmed. On top of that, many of these illegal aliens committed violent crimes or facilitated fentanyl and sex trafficking.
Okay, now again, I agree with every word of that, every single word. He continues, Again, all of that is legally true. He says, when the media and the far left obsess over an MS-13 gang member in demand, he'd be returned to the United States for a third deportation hearing. What they're really saying is they want the vast majority of illegal aliens to stay here permanently.
And here is where things start to go awry. Okay, he is right on the politics of this. He is right on the politics of this. And again, that's a separate question. Two things can be true at once. The administration can be taking a legally dicey position and also a politically popular position. Those two things can live in perfect harmony, legally dicey and politically popular.
are constant aspects of many of the policy decisions made by leaders on both sides. And as we'll get to in a moment, it's a political winner for the Trump administration to say we wanted to deport all these people and force the Democrats into the position of defending illegal alien gang members or suspected gang members. That is a politically winning position.
However, if you're setting up a predicate where you actually want to get things done, you should be doing things the right way because it's faster and easier to do it the right way than it is to do it the wrong way and then fight it out in the courts every step of the way. Vice President Vance continues, here's a useful test.
Ask the people weeping over the lack of due process what precisely they propose for dealing with Biden's millions and millions of illegals. And with reasonable resource and administrative judge constraints, does their solution allow us to deport at least a few million people per year? If the answer is no, they've given the game away. They don't want border security.
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Chapter 7: How do President Trump's statements and White House responses influence the immigration debate?
They don't want us to deport the people who have come into our country illegally. They want to accomplish through fake legal process what they failed to accomplish politically, the ratification of Biden's illegal migrant invasion. President Trump and I will not stand for it. Well, that's actually not the claim.
This particular human had a withholding order, meaning that he was not supposed to be sent to El Salvador. The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants do not, in fact, have such an order. And you could effectuate the law on them quickly and easily without some sort of subsequent hearing because there's no paperwork on them.
The whole problem with this particular guy is you picked a bad example and you should just fix it. and then send him out of the country again, and then continue deporting hundreds and thousands of illegal immigrants. Remember, with Abrego Garcia, same plane.
There were hundreds of illegal immigrants who are not subject to any of this controversy because none of them had any sort of withholding order put in place by a court. So you can have both and is sort of the argument that I'm making. You can win legally.
You can do the right legal thing, which continues to give people the assurance that due process is carried out, gives the courts the assurance due process is carried out, and also win the political fight. Now, Democrats, fortunately for Republicans, are willing to Leroy Jenkins pretty much every political fight, just run directly into the heart of danger.
So the Democrats have decided they are now going to visit an El Salvadoran prison. And this, of course, leads to the very wide open political argument. You guys won't even stand and clap for the family of Lake and Riley at the State of the Union address. But you will fly down to an El Salvadoran prison to meet with illegal immigrant gang members to grant them some sort of American sympathy.
What the hell is wrong with you people? You won't get up at the State of the Union and applaud for the family of Jocelyn Nungeri, who was a child murdered by illegal immigrants when a national park was named after her. But you will go out of your way to fly all the way down to El Salvador just to do a photo op with people the vast majority of whom we know are gang members. This is your move?
Like seriously, this is your move? It's so politically incompetent as to boggle the mind. Truly, President Trump has the best of luck in his opponents. It's really amazing.
Like if Democrats really wanted to make this an issue, what they really should do is they should stand outside the Supreme Court and they should say, this president refuses to abide by the orders of the Supreme Court that threatens due process.
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Chapter 8: What are the political reactions and actions of Democrats regarding this immigration issue?
I'm here at the airport. I'm about to board my flight for San Salvador. The goal of this mission is to let the Trump administration, to let the government of El Salvador know that we are going to keep fighting to bring Abrego Garcia home until he returns to his family. I hope to meet with representatives of the government. I hope to have the chance to actually see Kilmar.
and see what his condition is. But we are going to keep fighting because this is a miscarriage of justice. The Supreme Court has ruled nine to zero, nine to zero, that he was illegally taken out of the country and put in a prison in El Salvador. This is about due process. This is about rule of law. What bullies do is they begin by picking on the most vulnerable.
But if we get rid of the rule of law due process, the United States, it's a short road from there to tyranny.
God, they picked the worst, the worst friends. It's truly incredible. It's truly incredible. So it's not just that he wants this person to receive due process, which again, that's a fair argument. He's making the argument he wants to bring this guy home. He wants to take this guy, get him out of prison and bring him back to Maryland.
An illegal immigrant who is credibly accused of being a gang member. We need more of that in our country, according to Chris Van Hollen. Again, they can't stop themselves. They have to go the whole hog. They can't just make the case that the Trump administration is pushing on the bounds of legality in a wide variety of areas. Again, a case that you could at least facially make.
But instead, they are pushing on the idea that this person needs to be freed and brought back to the United States where he can live in Maryland. We're going to bring him home. And I'd love to see the same sort of enthusiasm from Chris Van Hollen for, you know, bringing home American citizen Idan Alexander, who's currently sitting in a tunnel thanks to Hamas.
He just doesn't have the same enthusiasm for that. He certainly doesn't have the same enthusiasm for victims of illegal immigrant crime in the United States. But he has a lot of sympathy on a personal level for this person, an illegal immigrant who was deported. And again, by the way, this person is not going to end up in the United States. He's appointed Stephen Miller, the deputy commissioner.
special advisor to the president was making the other day, which is that there's no situation in which this person ends up back in the United States permanently. It's not going to happen. But they have to make a hero. The left cannot help it. They must make a hero out of everyone targeted by the right, even if that person is not a good person or a person who should not be in the United States.
And it's not just Chris Van Hollen. Democrats are such idiots on this. Man, it's just political malpractice.
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Chapter 9: What broader immigration enforcement measures is the Trump administration pursuing?
Doge Service are also looking to kick out existing mixed-status households, vowing to ensure undocumented immigrants do not benefit from public programs, even if they live with citizens or other eligible family members. The push extends across agencies.
Last week, Social Security Administration entered the names and social security numbers of more than 6,000 mostly Latino immigrants into a database it uses to track dead people, effectively slashing their ability to receive benefits or work legally in the United States.
In other words, they're looking for fake social security numbers so they can bar people from illegally working in the United States. All of this is good and all of this is necessary. Doge is doing a great job of tracking down the misuse of American resources. And by the way, there are other legal fights that the Trump administration could be taking on that are going to be winners.
So for example, a federal judge on Monday temporarily blocked the Trump administration from revoking Joe Biden's migration program for people from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. A U.S.
District Court judge in Boston issued a stay of an executive order saying the early termination without any case by case justification of legal status for noncitizens who have complied with DHS programs and entered the country lawfully undermines the rule of law. But that, of course, is ridiculous.
Joe Biden unilaterally declared widespread migration, temporary protected status for entire countries. And the Trump administration is reversing it. Somehow Biden can do it with the stroke of a pen, but Trump can't undo it with the stroke of a pen. That is one that should go to the Supreme Court and Trump will win. So lots of wins on the table.
It just seems to me that fighting the due process considerations for Abrego Garcia should not take precedence over the rest of the Trump agenda on all of this stuff. And again, it does play into a narrative that the left is currently trying to build about the Trump administration, that they are lawless. They're attempting to violate the law.
One of those issues is, for example, the Trump administration, President Trump directing the DOJ to look into Chris Krebs, who was the person who oversaw cybersecurity during the 2020 presidential election, an appointee of President Trump.
Now, you'll remember just a few days ago, President Trump signed an executive order basically not only revoking his security clearance, but ordering a DOJ review of his activities as a government employee. Because Krebs said that he lost the election fair and square in 2020.
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