Chapter 1: What inspired Dugald Bruce Lockhart to write his first novel?
All right, this is going to be good, isn't it?
I loved this book.
Put that effing book down. When it comes to crime, only murder will do. I'm reading it and reading it and I'm going, oh no. So I thought I really have to hook the reader.
It's taken up half my heart, you know. The book actually put a hex on me. Bookshelf podcasters, hello. I'm Kate Evans. Thank you for joining me for another Podcast Extra edition of the show. Today, how about Greek islands, bad behaviour, crime writing and an actor. Dougald Bruce Lockhart is an Anglo-Scottish stage and screen actor. Look him up and you'll recognise him.
But now he's turned to fiction and a thriller called The Lizard. Although I warn you, Australians don't come off very well in this novel. But I asked him about this new book, but also about his own reading, his relationship to texts, given that he's a stage actor too. Have a listen with me, won't you? Dougal Bruce Lockhart, thank you so much for joining us on The Bookshelf.
Thank you indeed, and a very good morning and a good evening to you at the same time.
Now, congratulations on The Lizard, and that's your first novel. The story of a young Englishman who travels to Greek islands and, well, drama ensues. But why begin with a character who's out of place?
Okay, so there was two reasons for this. The first thing, the story is actually inspired by a trip that I took when I was 20 in 1988. During my summer holidays, I went on a solo trip to Paris. And I got myself in all sorts of scrapes, but nothing like in the book, I hasten to add, it is not in any way autobiographical.
But I decided to give it the framework, a framing of someone who wasn't sure about their identity, where they were going, and someone who was out to try and prove himself. And so the character to begin with is, he's intellectual, he's wily, but he's very green in terms of his wildlife experiences.
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Chapter 2: What themes are explored in Dugald's thriller 'The Lizard'?
I was big into collecting all sorts of creepy crawlies when I was younger. And this trip, which was sort of quite life changing in terms of my growing up, I always 30 years to write it. But I always thought that there was something there that needed to be told.
And I couldn't really put my finger on it until about, I started writing the novel in about 2006, but in the third person, the guy called Adam. And it stopped. It was a sort of autobiographical journalistic writing. And I met somebody at a barbecue and said, no, no, if you want to sell your book, you've got to stick a murder in it. And I was like, well, I didn't murder anybody.
He said, so make it up. I thought, yes, good point. Make it up. But actually, the reason I was set in 88 and then Greece, in Paros, partly because I had such a wonderful memory of Paris. I can still probably draw the map, most of the towns and even some of the roads. It affected me that much. And Greece, the light and the flora and fauna is also very close to me.
But with an adventure story such as this, I thought, I can't set it now, even though Greece has changed obviously a lot, but internet and mobile phones would make a story such as this just nonsensical. It wouldn't work because he'd get himself in trouble and, okay, I'll get my phone out and ring somebody. I'll click somebody. I'll tweet, WhatsApp somebody. And the spirit of adventure...
isn't the same. And I really wanted to embrace that idea that I still remember of when you could walk outside your door and you were effectively anonymous, which is, I think, one of the big themes. In fact, it was called anonymous before the lizard.
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Chapter 3: How did Dugald's personal experiences shape his writing?
In fact, it was called anonymous, then hunter-gatherer, and then the reflex, for which I blame Duran Duran. I don't quite know why. There was a reason for it. So that's why it was set in 88. And Grease, because I knew it like the back of my hand, and I also felt it made for a wonderful cauldron, a backdrop.
And like a lizard, he's trapped on this rock, and he becomes like the lizard, which is what he wanted to be, this man seeking to free his lizard brain rather than be trapped by academia, which is where he feels he is at St. Andrews University. So it's a flight into his inner hunter-gatherer, and Grease just seemed the perfect place for that.
But there is another lizard-like creature who is charismatic, but he is also a bit of a chameleon. And he's a sort of terrible, he's a terrible Australian named Ricky. So why did you choose to make him Australian? I have to ask.
Well, I mean, I think that was just coincidental, but it's drawn from, Ricky is made up from two or three different people. And also the book is drawing on a few things that happened and things that didn't, but inspired by people I met. When I was seven, eight years old living in Cyprus, one of my closest friends then called Darren Williams was a fantastic swimmer.
And he and I would swim all the time in the British High Commission pool. And he had an elder brother called Ricky, who was super cool. He was about four or five years old. He used to wear a shark's tooth around his neck. And I had that kind of hero worship for him.
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Chapter 4: What role does setting play in 'The Lizard'?
He was just too cool. He was very cool. He wouldn't really speak to us, but he could do everything brilliantly. And this is the sort of character that Haston meets, the person he thinks Ellie would like him to be. And then on my second trip to Paros, on the flight to Athens, I was sitting on a row with two Aussies and a Kiwi girl, and they were drinking wild turkey. And this was about midnight.
And we didn't get talking, but I was looking at them, and I was leaving them to the conversation. When we all met, coincidentally, in Piraeus... about six hours later, they were still drinking the wild Turkey and we got chatting and, and we got on like a house on fire and they said, where are you going? I said, I'm going to Paris. And they're like, well, we're going to Santorini.
Do you know, do you want to hook up? And I thought, let's do that. So we got on the ferry together. We went downstairs and we played a game of quarters and we got hammered on the rest of the wild Turkey. I missed Paris, missed Naxos. And I woke up basically in Santorini with them. And I then hung out with them for two, for two weeks. And these Aussies were super, super cool.
And my experience of them was, combined with this hero worship I had as a young boy for this Ricky character, it merged. And then there was a third element of Ricky. He wasn't Australian at all. He was an English guy that I knew out there who was very much like Ricky. he always drew attention from the girls. And I was like, how do you do it? There was a green 20-year-old.
And he said, well, the trick is you just go, and this is very un-Ricky, in fact, in the book, you just go to a bar and read a book and they'll come to you. Don't pursue them. And I just thought he was super cool. He also said to me, and by the way, beer doesn't make you fat. If you drink just beer and don't eat, you will stay thin. And I remember thinking, these are wise words of wisdom.
But it was the effect he had on me. I was slightly drawn to him as a sort of he was older. He was about 10 years older than me. And there was a kind of wise nature to him. And all of these elements combined to form Ricky. And I think, again, having traveled, I've met a lot of Aussies in the past.
And the exuberance, I'm not saying that all Australians are exuberant, because that sounds like I'm putting everyone in the basket in the same way that not all Brits are a certain way. But there was something just fitted it perfectly.
Dougal, this is your villain, Ricky, who's both a predator and a chameleon. So having described the real people who shaped him, I'm wondering if he also had sort of literary antecedents because he's almost, apart from the Australian bit, like a character who might appear in something like a Patricia Highsmith novel. So were there sort of literary antecedents for this character?
Yes. Absolutely. And in fact, 100%. And that came before, it didn't come, did it come before my trip in 88? Possibly. But Zorba the Greek was a book that I've always loved, loved the film. And I was hugely into Greek music. In Zorba the Greek, the main character, the protagonist, the narrator is waiting for a ferry in Piraeus. He's going to go and take over a mine on Crete.
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Chapter 5: Who are the key characters in 'The Lizard' and what are their traits?
What are you doing? I'm going to come and work for you. And this is Zorba. It was that meeting in the cafe in Piraeus, twinned with my meeting with these Australians the second year after I went to Paris. And Zorba is the absolute antithesis of the narrator. And that relationship was very much in my mind when I wrote it.
And I love that idea of if you get the initial spark right, then you open up avenues for all sorts of storytelling. So that was a huge influence. And then there was another, but technically this is Heinrich, because Heinrich and Ricky are a pair. Heinrich is older. He's the retired German artist for whom Ricky works and for whom Alistair Aston eventually works.
But the Magus by John Fowles was another influence. Again, the young teacher who goes out to Greece. He's bored with life. And he eventually comes to this villa where he's been looking at it for days and days and days. And finally, he decides to go and explore it. And there, waiting on the terrace, is a table set for two. And he realized that he's been expected.
And the relationship he has with Maurice Conscious, who is the Magus, the magician, if you like, who takes him on this wild adventure spiritually. And physically, that relationship was also part and parcel of Heinriching Hassen, but also very much Ricky. So those two were huge influences.
The other thing that I'm curious about in just sort of imagining you both as a reader and as a writer, Dougal, is that you're an actor of both stage and screen. I'm wondering what plays and scripts and so on have done to your relationship to words, right?
Yes, great question. Because I also, as well as acting, I direct and teach now. And my main focus, especially having spent 15 years working and touring with Shakespeare, with actors, is that you find character through the words, the use of the words. I describe it as using words as weapons to change somebody's mind.
And if your idea of acting is that you have to reach this character that somehow exists outside of yourself, you're never going to use the words properly. And actually, It's the text, the situation, the words, particularly the rhythm of the words, the very sound of the words, the order the words come. And of course, this is hugely important in Shakespeare.
If you deliver the words right, you create a signal which the audience picks up and in their head, they see the character. So you don't act the character, you act the words.
And this belief that's grown and I've understood over 25 years of touring, especially working with Shakespeare, has made me very conscious when I write of just how important certain words are, about how specific you have to be.
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Chapter 6: What influences did classic literature have on Dugald's writing style?
He actually gave me the copy himself because it's not out till October. But he's written a series of spy novels, and this one is set partly in the late 80s and partly in the modern day. In the 80s, it talks about how this young protagonist ends up being chosen by MI6 to work for MI6. And then in the current thread, it's how he is in a crisis situation and dealing with it.
He has the ability, which I think very few authors have, and I don't know how I would do it if I attempted to try it, of keep maintaining the tension when you're jumping from time zones. You forget that it's even two different time zones, and actually it makes sense within one.
And I think any complex thriller, one can get too caught up in the wham-bam, thank you, ma'am, of plot progression and actually forget to enjoy the journey. And maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I love to enjoy the journey. And he manages to combine the modern with a wonderfully old-fashioned yet vibrant, dynamic storytelling technique.
So, yes, the book I just read recently was Box 88 by Charles Cumming, but his debut novel was called A Spy by Nature. And I think he wrote it in 2003. It's about a young guy who is offered the chance to be recruited for MI6. And he goes through the production. The first sort of third of the book is about him trying to second guess his competitors.
all the different kinds of people around him to try and secure a place. And he doesn't get in. Again, I don't want to give too much away. He doesn't get in, but he gets a call saying, listen, you didn't get in, but could you help us with this one thing? It won't take much. And you can imagine where it goes. And he's asked to basically spy.
And he's effectively taken his mission is to spy on an oil producing firm and who have a pair of CIA agents working for them. He has to befriend them and then try and mis-sell them secrets. It was the relationship between the first person, the narrator and the reader that I found just so enthralling.
He would say one thing to a character and then he'd write something else, what he was really thinking. And the speed and dexterity between what he said and what he was thinking was just so dynamic and brutal and at times very in your face and bold and risky, but completely true. So yes, Charles Cumming, spy thriller. I recommend it to everyone.
Dougal Bruce Lockhart, thank you so much for speaking to us on The Bookshelf.
Thank you very much indeed.
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