Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome, for the first time to the show, reporter and co-founder at Dropsite News. His books include The Squad, and he's formerly with The Intercept, as well as Suffering the Indignity of Working with Sam Stein at the Huffington Post. It's Ryan Grimm. What's up, man? No indignity at all.
Man, I'm jealous that you get to work with Sam. I miss my time with old Sammy. It was about a decade that we were partners in crime. Is that right? Yeah. It's like almost 10 years. Time flies. Yeah. We got a lot to get to.
I want to do a little bit of like at the end, just for the real sickos, some like, you know, intra-democratic party narrative wars between the Liz Cheney's wing and the populist lefties. But unfortunately, the news gods have given us a bunch of sad shit to talk about. So first, yesterday morning during a nice encounter in Minneapolis,
Renee Good, a 37-year-old mother, was murdered by an ICE agent. She was sitting in her Honda Pilot, waving officers by when three masked agents descended on her car, tried to open the door. They're shouting instructions at her. She tries to pull away. One of the agents draws down on her and shoots her three times in the head.
She leaves behind three kids, including a six-year-old son who had previously lost his father and is now orphaned. I want to get into kind of the reaction, but just on the actual events of what happened, I was wondering what your thoughts were.
I've done a lot of police shooting reporting over the years, and this was sadly a very familiar scene, which is where you have a situation where a person is trying to comply, but... Tense, nervous, and angry officers are shouting contradictory orders at them. This happens, unfortunately, way too often.
And in this case, if you look closely, you have one person saying, get out of the car and pulling on her door handle. And then you have another officer saying, get out of here. And it's hard to, I think, put yourself in a place where you have masked armed men surrounding you and your situation has gone from zero to 60.
Because as you said in the video, right before that, she was waving some ICE officers past her. And then she's about to leave and then somebody kind of cuts her off. So she lets that person go. So she's waiting to exit this area. And then this other vehicle comes storming up and the officer that killed her was not in that vehicle. He's kind of off to the side filming.
And this is what really struck me. Did you notice this? I didn't notice it till this morning. I'd seen this video like two times before we published yesterday and did a little commentary on it. You know, it was like the ninth time I was watching. I was like, wait, what is in his left hand? He has his phone. Yeah, it looks like he's, I don't know if he's filming, but his phone is on.
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Chapter 2: What happened during the ICE shooting incident in Minneapolis?
But there's no training manual that would say, oh, and also you should have your iPhone out in the other hand. Like, looking through your... Like... Just absolute rank amateur nonsense. Attorneys who have defended police officers in police-involved shooting cases have almost unanimously been coming out and saying, this is indefensible.
What I would try to do is cut some kind of a deal if this were my client. The fact that she's turning the wheel, but also, why are they harassing this American citizen? There's no reason for them to be there. Who are they? That's kind of why I like – There's no authority to deal with her. Yeah.
I spent a lot of time like – which I shouldn't have probably getting in social media fights with people like going through the frame by frame on all the stuff you just broke down. And doing the most generous possible – maybe it is possible that the officer that ended up shooting her, the agent that shot her, was scared in that moment. It does –
happen fast, but then the car does turn because you turn the wheel, then he shoots her two times through the side window when he's out of any danger. The point I kept trying to make to people was like, it's stupid to even get into the frame-by-frame analysis argument. Like, what was happening here? This is a 37-year-old woman in her Honda Pilot.
She's got stuffed animals for a kid sitting in the passenger seat. The car is not moving. It's stationary. And a bunch of masked officers like storm the car and start shaking her door. And then one of them draws their weapon. It's like, there was no need for any of this, right? Like she was not a dangerous crew. It's not like they were like that. She was a suspect.
And this is one of these tragedies where like, you know, they took, they were told that a murderers and a Honda pilot or something like this. And they converge on a car, right? They, right. She's not a criminal suspect. She's not even an undocumented immigrant, if that's the purpose of them being there. She is, I guess, maybe protesting.
We don't know the whole backstory at this point about what she'd been doing.
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Chapter 3: How do conflicting orders from police contribute to dangerous situations?
But the car is not in any way a threat until these guys... converge on it. I think you're right that in some ways the frame-by-frame analysis is a trap because it almost acknowledges the legitimacy of what they're doing to begin with and then says, well, but they made some mistakes here and so that rises to some type of homicide. But no, they have no business
confronting an American citizen on an American road, just going about her business, like leave her alone. Like you, you don't have any business being there. Like stop. The administration's reaction is just unbelievably unconscionable. I just want to read through a couple of the things. The president said this. The woman driving the car was very disorderly, obstructing and resisting.
She then violently, willfully and viciously ran over the ICE officer who seems to have shot her in self-defense. Based on the clip, it's hard to believe he is alive. but is now recovering in the hospital. So Trump said he's recovering in the hospital. This is obviously not true. You watch the officer walk away.
Vance this morning says every congressional Democrat should be asked a simple question. Do you think this officer was wrong in defending his life against a deranged leftist who tried to run him over? This is, again, this woman, American citizen, gets murdered. Vice president's now calling her names and making accusations about her motives without knowing anything.
And then we had Kristi Noem dressed up as Indiana Jones yesterday in a press conference. Let's listen to that. It was an act of domestic terrorism. What happened was our ICE officers were out in an enforcement action. They got stuck in the snow because of the adverse weather that is in Minneapolis.
They were attempting to push out their vehicle, and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them and attempted to run them over and ram them with her vehicle. That's just a totally hallucinated story. That doesn't even have anything resembling what happened. And it's also, what's this Keystone Cop nonsense of getting your car stuck in the snow? You're cops.
Like, cops are supposed to be out helping people who can't handle inclement situations. Like, these are absolute amateurs. Like, so they started the traffic jam by getting their car stuck in the snow in Minnesota. Like- You were surprised that there was ice and snow in Minnesota. You don't have snow tires on your car in Minnesota.
If you have snow tires, you should not be stuck in the snow in Minnesota. So what are you doing? So you started this entire thing. Now you've created a traffic jam. It's chaos. She's waving people through. Instead of going through, you run up on her and surround her vehicle and give her contradictory orders and then shoot and kill her.
If this was like, you know, 2004 or something and there was no video of this. Right. Like the lie in some ways is less offensive. It's more absurd because all of us know it's such a blatant lie. But like imagine if we didn't have the video. And all we had is eyewitnesses versus what Noma's saying. And Noma's saying she tried to ram them with her vehicle and she's a domestic terrorist.
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Chapter 4: How does the manosphere feel about Trump's presidency now?
And all you can do is just like spit and like rage about it. I like fuckery a lot better than gaslighting. If I'm just going to be choosing a word, you know, it feels, it feels more on point. Yeah, I don't know, man.
There's definitely fuckery happening from the administration, but I was pretty shook by the amount of people, real people, not bots, people I know in my life on social media who are basically just like, yeah, she deserved it. Like, I'm sorry, if a cop tells you to do something, you should do it.
I was thinking like, I was kind of shook when Charlie Kirk was killed and there were a lot of people that were kind of like, well, he deserved it. He had what was coming to him. People in my life said that. It's been pretty, I should say, jarring to me that there are a lot of our citizens out there
A lot of people in the country, a lot of people in the political space who basically think the punishment for not listening to a cop's orders in a stressful situation is that you should be summarily executed. I don't know if you have any thoughts on this psychological status of our fellow Americans, but it's pretty disturbing. Extremely disturbing. That element of it is dark.
Seeing people who you disagree with on some things, agree with on some things, defending the indefensible. For no reason. Like, you don't have to do this. Her kid is orphaned. She has a six-year-old orphan. Why are you doing this? Like, she didn't, you know, you could just grab her license plate. Right.
When you're defending something that most police officers won't defend, you've taken a wrong turn. Like, any police officer who's gone through training watching that would say, none of that is how this should be done. This is an embarrassment to us. This is a shame. This person should be punished and prosecuted.
To not agree with those police officers because you hate – and I think this is where the darkness comes in. They might not even agree with it. They just hate that woman so much that they don't care. Like a 37-year-old liberal poet – like who may or may not, like they assumed that she was like an observer at the protest.
I don't even know if that's true in this case, but that's what they believed, that this was a protester. It seems like she probably was, but even it doesn't matter. Yeah. So let's say she was. They hate those people so much that they're okay, that they're glad that this was done to her. That's where the darkness, I think, is seeping in.
I have escalation concerns from all parties here, and people are right to be enraged. I'm fucking enraged. I was living in Minnesota protesting. I saw some videos of protesters, good reason, righteously shouting at some of these ICE and CBP officials. One of those guys gets upset about that, administration cracking down, reliving Kenosha or other things for 2020.
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Chapter 5: What was the reaction from political figures to the shooting?
Right, yeah. Shreveport would be like, yeah, this is not your backyard. You're welcome to visit and hang out and watch a game. Let's talk about something no one wants to talk about. What happens when you die? That's brutal. I don't know. It's not really true for me. My mother loves talking about death. My mother is just very comfortable talking about death. It's a good Catholic trait.
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I want to talk about the political, like what this says about what's happening on the right. You've kind of lived at this nexus of the horseshoe, if you will, with breaking points where people don't know it. It has hosts that are kind of populist righties, populist lefties, essentially, for shorthand. Also some other people with weird heterodox politics in there as well.
But part of the populist right that has been kind of rising is folks that are rhetorically saying, you know, Sounding a lot like how you just sounded. We shouldn't care about stuff that's happening over there. I don't care about tribal conflicts in the Middle East or Africa or South America for that matter. And we shouldn't out with the neocons. And there's been some common cause.
You know, we've seen people like Glenn Greenwald as a populist lefty become very friendly with the populist right crowd on MAGA media. And now we're a year into the Trump administration where he was supposed to be kind of representing that populist right foreign policy. And, you know, we're bombing people everywhere, basically. And we just deposed a leader in Venezuela.
And it has revealed some strains of people that were legitimate in that view. But a lot of these folks, you know, have turned out to be fake. And one of them was a Daily Wire guy named Matt Walsh was on your show talking about how he is fake. Non-interventionist. Non-interventionist by nature, but also he's like really thrilled that we're fucking up Venezuela.
So you're living in this world even a little more than me, actually. How do you assess that kind of strain of what's happening on the right? With the Matt Walsh strain, I think there's like a macho element to his politics that that is going to like dominate over whatever claims he has to non-interventionism where they're saying they're against previous wars that didn't go well.
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of the U.S. running Venezuela?
What's that? The convention. She wasn't at the convention. Not at the convention, but getting aced. Some things people don't remember. I just want to, which I know if, if common was like, look, look, the convention is booked. And I heard from DNC people that are like, that there were all these pedestrian reasons. They couldn't do it.
Cause Oh, the climate people are going to want somebody or the, or the Oregonians are going to want somebody. It's like, okay, fine. then we'll do an event next week with her. Sure. And we'll go to Georgia together. You could do that and be like, oh, and the uncommitted folks be like, all right, you know what?
Annoying that you can't find two minutes in this like endless affair, but okay, you're going to get on stage, then fine. Like that's something. But my point is like the second that Hasan, if you don't give Hasan anything to tell his audience, And he still then comes and says, well, look, Trump's so bad. He then stops being the person that's going to influence them.
Like he's now a different person. So now you need other more radical people to do the thing that you want them to do. So there's a reality to these people's like views of the conflict that aren't going to be changed by Trump. Influencers. Influencers don't have the influence that we think. They then get rejected by their audience. I'm glad we did that. That was a 14 minute.
I should put this behind the paywall. 14 minute sickos only bonus discourse over the DNC convention. All right. I appreciate you taking the extra time. My fighting list includes Yimby. It includes other Middle Eastern policy stuff. It includes the investor houses, the big investor houses. I'm going to create a whole list for us. We'll just do a little. We'll figure something out. It's on.
All right. Drop site news. Everybody go support it. That's Ryan Grimm. We're back tomorrow. It's going to be a good one, I promise you. We'll see you all then. Peace.
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