The White House is pumping out a lot of happy talk about countries wanting to make deals over the tariffs, but the tumult Trump has created has spread to the bond market. And that may be a sign that he has people so spooked about the U.S. economy that our Treasuries are no longer seen as a safe bet. Meanwhile, China has a lot of leverage here and may be using it. Plus, the Democrats' candidate recruiter for the midterms, Colorado's Jason Crow, discusses how to win back working class voters. Catherine Rampell and Rep. Jason Crow join Tim Miller. show notes Catherine's column, "Who will tell Trump he’s naked?" Catherine's column on the Senate GOP tax plan NYT profile of Jason Crow
Chapter 1: Who are the guests and what is the episode about?
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We got a double header today. Congressman Jason Crowe from Colorado in segment two. But first, delighted to bring back a syndicated opinion columnist at the Washington Post. She's joining MSNBC as co-anchor for a new weekend show. Also a special correspondent for the NewsHour. She's busy. It's Catherine Rampell. What's up?
Doing okay. How are you?
Doing okay? Personally, I'm well.
Well, I don't know. My 401k doesn't look great. Democracy doesn't look great. But I have my health.
Yeah.
That's what I'm supposed to tell myself, right?
And we have a long path in front of us. The college fund, I still got 11 years to rebound the 401k after today. It's not the 401k, but the college savings account.
Well, you're assuming colleges will still be around.
That's a good point.
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Chapter 2: What are the economic risks of Trump's tariff policies?
Which is what I was saying, like, very initially happened and normally what you would expect to happen because people sell their stocks, again, they put it into bonds, and then that pushes bond rates down. And then maybe...
because we're talking about government borrowing, when those interest rates go down, we can refinance the national debt, just like Donald Trump would refinance one of his properties, right? If you're a real estate investor or a homeowner, for that matter, and you're borrowed at a very high interest rate. You're excited when rates fall because you can refinance.
And so that maybe he could use that as an opportunity to not like negotiate our debt down, but just like when it rolls over, roll over it at lower rates or refinance otherwise. Anyway, I think that's the theory of the case. First of all, I don't think that's like nearly as plausible. Even if markets did what you would normally expect, right? which is, again, having interest rates fall.
I don't think that's remotely plausible. But again, we are seeing the opposite happen. Instead, we are seeing treasury rates increase, maybe because nobody wants to invest here, maybe because people want to hold cash, maybe because they're worried about inflation.
All the things that I was talking about before, you know, we don't know which of them it is, but whatever, we will soon probably, but whatever the cause is, the outcome means it becomes much more expensive for the federal government to borrow. And so, in fact, this will worsen our debt obligations in the United States. And they're already on a totally unsustainable path.
And nobody wants to do anything about it. If anything, Republicans on the Hill are trying to increase our debt through the coming tax cuts. Yeah. So whatever this kooky theory is not going to happen. Virtually the opposite is likely to.
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