Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
What's up, friends? I'm off the grid this week on vacation with my family. Spring break is here. I'm enjoying my life. And this week, I have a show for you with the chief strategy officer from Tailscale. His name is David Carney. We're talking about where Tailscale is heading.
TSIDP, TSNET, acronyms all over the place, multiple tailnets, Aperture, their AI gateway, Clickless Auth, and so much more. Big thank you to our friends and partners over at Fly for getting our back. They support the show. They make it happen. I'm so thankful for that. Check them out, fly.io. That is the home of changelog.com, if you didn't know. Learn more at fly.io. Okay, let's do this.
Well friends, I'm here with my good friend, Chris Kelly, over at Augment Code. Chris, I'm a fan. I use Augie on the daily. It's one of my daily drivers. Now I use Cloud Code, I use Augment, Augie, and I also use AMP Code and others, but Augie, I keep going back to it, and here's where I'm at. I feel like not enough of our audience knows about Augment Code, not enough about Augie, the CLI.
It's amazing, I love it. What can you share?
Yeah, we often say Augment is the best coding assistant you've never heard of. And that's both frustrating as someone that works there and is like very proud of the work we've done, but also like inspiring. Like we want to go and sort of punch above our weight because like we aren't anthropic and we aren't open AI. And so the quality of the product itself, you know, with our context engine
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Chapter 2: How does Tailscale's TSIDP enhance identity management?
Once you do touch it, people are like just blown away by that. And so like that keeps me going every day.
So not to bear the lead here, but this is a paid spot. You are sponsoring this show to get this awareness. Now, at the same time, we're selective and I love to use your tool, but.
there is in the world so a lot of developers look at the space and they say okay well how long can this work how long is this sustainable in the case of cursor or windsurf or you pick the name and you think discounted tokens help me shape a lens for audience i think it's a lot of awareness right like um cursor got a lot of um publicity early on for like fast revenue growth which
well-deserved. I think, you know, frankly, some of the media gets the story wrong in that, like, if I gave you $1.50 for every dollar you sent me, I'd be the fastest growing startup in the Valley. And so when you're selling discounted tokens, Yes, of course you're going to grow very fast, but all that money plus more goes to the model providers.
So I think the real story is the story of Anthropic and being an API provider. I think the market has just moved so fast and there's so many pieces of competition out there that it's just hard to get noticed.
So friends, I love augment code and I love using Augie and I highly recommend you use it. I love using Augie. I can hand Augie a well-defined specification, a well-defined pep, as I call them in my world, an agent flow, and it executes flawlessly.
So the cool thing about Augie that I love most really is that context engine and I can hand it a task and it could just churn away on my well-defined plan and just never bother me and accomplish the mission. It is so cool leveraging the latest models, the context engine and all the fun things behind the scenes in that awesome CLI. So yes, go try it out.
Augmentcode.com right in the top there is a CLI icon, a terminal icon. Click that. install it, and change your world. It's going to be awesome. Well, friends, we're here with David Carney, co-founder, chief strategy officer of Tailscale. Friends, you know I'm a big fan of Tailscale. So, David, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. That's a big role.
I mean, that would shake me in my boots if I was chief strategy officer of Tailscale. What a big platform you're building and a lot of moving parts and a lot of direction you can go.
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Chapter 3: What are the benefits of using multiple tailnets for isolation?
But I guess in terms of projects, it's still very actively, there's a lot of active interest and we use it internally, but the stuff I've worked on has shifted a little bit.
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Chapter 4: What insights can be gained from using TSNet applications?
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What are the things that are most active for you now? I think this might be one of them, given Aperture's announcement. And this is sort of the underpinnings of all that. But what are some of the other things that are more active? Even with API keys, I know those are being thrown around everywhere. And Tailscale has kind of, to some degree, solved most of that.
And like you'd mentioned, it's hard to tell everyone about the cool stuff you have. And now you have a chance.
Yeah, and thank you for that. Yeah, so Aperture is definitely the evolution of a lot of that exploration last year. And so for those of you who aren't aware, Aperture is basically an AI gateway built on top of TSNet, which I mentioned earlier, that works inside of your tail net. And you can expose it. Well, there are ways to expose it externally.
But essentially, it's a private AI gateway that lets you consolidate all of your API keys inside of it. And it just looks like a node on your tail net like any other would. After spending months and months going to various AI conferences and showing off TS-IDP and just talking with all sorts of people, like engineers, CISOs, people in IT, what have you.
Time and time again, people were saying things like, oh, TS-IDP, it's super fascinating, interesting that you guys are working on all this kind of stuff. I see the merits of tail scale. Multi-tailnet, which is this other thing we've been working on internally, is super neat. But what I'm really struggling with is just trying to figure out how to manage API keys because they're all over the place.
I can't claw them back because it'll potentially disrupt production or some engineering workflow. We're trying to go really fast as a business. And it's just dangerous. You've got API keys all over the place. People trade them, they get exfiltrated, they get checked in. And they have very large, I guess, well, accounts or credit cards associated with them.
And so it's very hard in some cases to track usage because a lot of API calls are inherently anonymous. We were sitting around at a company offsite back in November, just talking about all the things we've been learning over the past few months. And we're like, well, wait a minute, if...
If we built a gateway and we used TSNet for that, the gateway already knows exactly who you are because everything that connects to it over Tailscale has identity baked in. So if we put the API keys all inside of the gateway, then you wouldn't need to share an API key with anybody inside of your company. You could just say, oh, if you have a coding agent, just point the coding agent
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Chapter 5: How does Aperture serve as an AI gateway for API management?
I spent so much time and heart, like just, I had so many headaches about building authentication systems and managing, you know, managing infrastructure, opening up firewall ports and dealing with like, like whitelisting IPs. And now with Tailscale, you just don't need to do that. And then applications you built. Yeah. And with applications you build with TSNet, you don't need to do that. Right.
So it's, yeah, it's just been a joy to work on this project over the past while.
As a home labber, I'm thinking about having, is Aperture available to anyone? Is it a product? Do I have to pay for it? How do you deliver it to someone?
It's, I mean, it's an early alpha right now. There is a self-serve flow. We launched it just, well, we quietly launched it a couple of weeks ago. It's not quiet now. We did more of a push just the other day on it. But if you go to aperture.talescale.com, you can sign up. We manage it as a wait list just because we don't want the servers to get overloaded.
But the idea is that we're going to open it up very quickly for everybody as soon as we're sure that things are just going to scale just fine. But basically, we will provision an instance. You authenticate it as a node into your network. It just shows up. You can start using it right away. It's in line with what we already do for Tailscale. It's free for Homelab use.
We're going to be announcing how we're bundling it as part of the free plan, just free for home use, that kind of thing, just like we do. Obviously, we're planning on it being a paid product for enterprise, but we're still exploring pricing and all that there. But I want every home lab, anybody who's playing with LLMs and API keys and stuff at home, they should just be using it.
It just makes things easier, sort of like the tailscale way.
Is this self-hosted then, or is it not self-hosted? Because you said provision and instance.
Yeah, so we are hosting these instances for customers right now. There is plans and talk about self-hosted versions and certainly enterprises. Some of them would insist on that. There's varying degrees of what that might mean. Customers might be like, oh, I want to bring my own cloud. You just write the logs there, but you can host the actual stuff that's taking up the CPU.
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Chapter 6: How can developers leverage Tailscale for better networking solutions?
But I imagine a lot of teams, a lot of tech companies, a lot of non-tech companies that are now tech companies, they think the same thing. They want sovereignty over their things. They want to control their CPU costs. They want to trust the cloud less and still leverage cloud native type things, but in their own controlled way.
especially when it comes to identity and especially when it comes to all tool calls and all responses, etc. I mean, because as an individual AI user, a team of one, basically, when it comes to the things I'm building, one of the things that I have anxiety about is Or just, I suppose, not anxiety, but like, I just wish there was a record.
It sounds like with Aperture, I can gateway my way into all my AI and have my prompts and the responses stored there versus the compacting that happens and goes away. You even have, you know, in cloud code, for example, you have an export where you can export the conversation, basically. It's like, let me snapshot what we've talked about.
So worst case, I can walk away with context of the conversation, maybe not context of what we actually, the underneath we've described and, you know, some of the world we explored. I feel like that, to me, I would want personally, maybe this is direct feedback, but as a home labber, I would want to self-host that, especially because of how secure or exposed I might be with those.
It's like not self-hosting your email. I think today you definitely don't do that. But I think in this case, it's such sensitive or could be such sensitive information that I personally would prefer to self-host it.
And I'm curious why, given that you largely haven't done a lot of infrastructure in the history of Tailscale, like you've pretty much been a pointer in a lot of cases and not a lot of infrastructure required to build what you've built. Why now? Why build out instances and hosting and, I guess, responsibility?
Yeah, or liability.
Liability too. All the abilities, you know?
Yeah, no, it's a very good question. Accountability, responsibility, liability, all those things. Yeah, no, it's a very, very good question. And I agree with you. I think a lot of people will want and will expect to self-host it. And we do want to provide a path for that. So early. I get that. It's early.
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