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Chapter 1: What does sobriety really mean beyond quitting substances?
Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. A lot of people think, you know, sobriety is about quitting something. I gotta quit smoking, I gotta quit drinking, I gotta quit doing this or that.
But anyone that's kicked a serious habit knows that it's not so much about quitting as it is confronting. Not just your relationship with that substance, but why... you turn to it in the first place, what it's doing in your life, what hole it's filling, what problem it's helping you medicate or run away from.
You know, it's about facing your emotions instead of running from them, how to deal with chaos and dysregulation instead of just reaching for relief. And I think that's why stoicism has become so popular in 12-step groups and recovery, but also just anyone trying to get control of themselves, trying to deal with those things that Seneca says make us a slave.
And Seneca isn't even just talking about substances, right? Seneca's talking about ambition. He's talking about power. He's talking about wanting to be liked, wanting to be famous, wanting to be rich, right?
And for the Stoics, it wasn't about perfect abstinence necessarily, especially for some of these things that actually are a part of life, unlike, you know, cigarettes, which you don't need to smoke or crack, which you don't need to do.
Some of these other things are a more integral part of life and therefore confronting them and our dependence on them or our unhealthy relationship with them is even harder. I was talking about this a few years ago with Troy Baker.
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Chapter 2: How did Jon Gustin's relationship with substances begin?
We did a great episode of the podcast. We're talking about Marcus Aurelius and the idea that Marcus Aurelius is not the work of someone who has mastered himself once and for all, but someone who's still wrestling, still correcting, still trying, still confronting himself in the fight to be the person that philosophy wants him to be. This is what we said.
It's important that we don't see the Stoics he's not writing in meditations from this sort of sage-like zen perspective of having triumphed over his emotions. It's the opposite. He's saying that because he got pissed at people today. I literally picture him, you know, from the river, you know, he's like sitting there going, you gotta get your shit together, man.
When there's a passage towards the end, he's like, you're an old fucking man and you're still doing this, you know, and you realize this is not, this is not teenage Marcus, right? putting down rules for how he wants to be. This is 30, 40, 50 years of philosophy, Marcus, who's still having trouble with this shit. With great teachers along the way. It's not like he didn't have a model for it.
Like he had literally the best education and he's still struggling. So there, there is sometimes where I think that the employing of comparison can be helpful.
Chapter 3: What was the emotional rock bottom that led to Jon's recovery?
And that's what today's conversation with John Gustin is about. It was a lovely little conversation. John is the creator of The Tired Dad. If you spent any time on TikTok or Instagram, you got kids. Probably the algorithm has surfaced you his stuff.
A couple of years ago, his wife bought him Stillness is the Key, my book, and then Daily Dad, which he was saying were sort of a transitional point in his life when he was trying to get sober, trying to write more, trying to be a better father and husband.
And in this episode today, I wanted to riff a little bit with him on his path to sobriety, what made him change, practices that are helping him stay sober, and how stoicism became a part of that journey. You can check out John's new book, The Tired Dad, 100 Reflections on Showing Up for What Matters Most. And then, of course, you should follow him on all the social platforms.
Just search The Tired Dad. It's everywhere. It's a great follow. He's awesome. And I think you'll like this little episode. So this is like the best time of year in Texas.
Chapter 4: What daily practices helped Jon stay sober?
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Chapter 5: How did stoicism influence Jon's recovery journey?
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Chapter 6: What role did Jon's family play in his sobriety?
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Yeah, I've never had a good relationship with any substance. It started when I was 13, seventh grade. My friend gave me Adderall. And it was, this is amazing. I want to feel like this forever. It's like, it's solving all my problems with like socialization and everything. That's kind of the sign you're an addict, right? When it's like that magical experience the first time.
Chapter 7: How does Jon manage stress and chaos in parenting?
When you become an addict the first time you do something, which is how everything's been. First time I got drunk, I got alcohol poisoning at a school dance. And you would think that would be, okay, this isn't for me. No. Yeah. So that's how I knew my relationship with substances just was not healthy. Yeah. And lied to myself for years thinking, oh, I can control it.
And, you know, you get sober for like three months and you're like, great. But you make up for lost time. Yeah. When you're back. But 2020 really was not good for it. Because suddenly you're trapped at home with yourself. Yeah.
Chapter 8: What insights does Jon share about addiction and self-awareness?
And we had our second born, my son, during that time, late 19, we had him.
We were in the same boat.
Yeah. I always used it to just like hide my emotions, you know, not deal with stuff. I grew up with a very non-expressive family. My dad is, you know, military. My grandpa was military. It wasn't, I didn't feel like I could be expressive, you know. I was, though. I'm a big feeler.
When you drank, they could come out?
Or was that, it helped you keep them locked up? Both, you know. It just, you know, it solves the stuff that you should deal with. Yeah. And so flash forward to me getting sober in the beginning of 23, the second day in 2023, that first year was, it's not like it was, oh my gosh, I'm sober. This is so great. It was like, oh, the last 20 years, here they are. Yeah.
This is all the stuff you need to deal with. Yeah.
You know, because because like running away from your problems is like putting them on a credit card. Right. There's just the interest that is accruing. And then you look at the balance one day and you're like, oh, should I have 20 years of deferred accumulated interest on all the shit that has been piling up since childhood?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I knew I was being honest with myself that I, I knew it wasn't going to get better. And my kids were young at the time, but I knew where it was going. And I didn't want to have to get sober when they were, you know, when they knew what was going on. Right. You know, and I just didn't want to be that dad. And I just stopped lying to myself. And I just dealt with it head on.
What'd you do? Did you go to rehab? You go to meetings? How'd you do it? No, just really just, I just stopped and like consumed a lot of material, you know, the full circle moment here. My wife got me Stillness is Key and it came out in 2019. Yeah. I think it was before. And I shelved it. Yeah. I didn't know who you were at the time. I didn't know what stoicism was.
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