Rock Bottom, Recovery, and Starting Over at 40 | Jon Gustin
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What does sobriety really mean beyond quitting substances?
Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. A lot of people think, you know, sobriety is about quitting something. I gotta quit smoking, I gotta quit drinking, I gotta quit doing this or that. But anyone that's kicked a serious habit knows that it's not so much about quitting as it is confronting. Not just your relationship with that substance, but why... you turn to it in the first place, what it's doing in your life, what hole it's filling, what problem it's helping you medicate or run away from. You know, it's about facing your emotions instead of running from them, how to deal with chaos and dysregulation instead of just reaching for relief.
And I think that's why stoicism has become so popular in 12-step groups and recovery, but also just anyone trying to get control of themselves, trying to deal with those things that Seneca says make us a slave. And Seneca isn't even just talking about substances, right? Seneca's talking about ambition. He's talking about power. He's talking about wanting to be liked, wanting to be famous, wanting to be rich, right? And for the Stoics, it wasn't about perfect abstinence necessarily, especially for some of these things that actually are a part of life, unlike, you know, cigarettes, which you don't need to smoke or crack, which you don't need to do. Some of these other things are a more integral part of life and therefore confronting them and our dependence on them or our unhealthy relationship with them is even harder.
I was talking about this a few years ago with Troy Baker.
How did Jon Gustin's relationship with substances begin?
We did a great episode of the podcast. We're talking about Marcus Aurelius and the idea that Marcus Aurelius is not the work of someone who has mastered himself once and for all, but someone who's still wrestling, still correcting, still trying, still confronting himself in the fight to be the person that philosophy wants him to be. This is what we said. It's important that we don't see the Stoics he's not writing in meditations from this sort of sage-like zen perspective of having triumphed over his emotions. It's the opposite. He's saying that because he got pissed at people today. I literally picture him, you know, from the river, you know, he's like sitting there going, you gotta get your shit together, man.
When there's a passage towards the end, he's like, you're an old fucking man and you're still doing this, you know, and you realize this is not, this is not teenage Marcus, right? putting down rules for how he wants to be. This is 30, 40, 50 years of philosophy, Marcus, who's still having trouble with this shit. With great teachers along the way. It's not like he didn't have a model for it. Like he had literally the best education and he's still struggling. So there, there is sometimes where I think that the employing of comparison can be helpful.
What was the emotional rock bottom that led to Jon's recovery?
And that's what today's conversation with John Gustin is about. It was a lovely little conversation. John is the creator of The Tired Dad. If you spent any time on TikTok or Instagram, you got kids. Probably the algorithm has surfaced you his stuff. A couple of years ago, his wife bought him Stillness is the Key, my book, and then Daily Dad, which he was saying were sort of a transitional point in his life when he was trying to get sober, trying to write more, trying to be a better father and husband. And in this episode today, I wanted to riff a little bit with him on his path to sobriety, what made him change, practices that are helping him stay sober, and how stoicism became a part of that journey.
You can check out John's new book, The Tired Dad, 100 Reflections on Showing Up for What Matters Most. And then, of course, you should follow him on all the social platforms. Just search The Tired Dad. It's everywhere. It's a great follow. He's awesome. And I think you'll like this little episode.
So this is like the best time of year in Texas.
What daily practices helped Jon stay sober?
You know, the weather's getting good. You want to spend time outside.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What does sobriety really mean beyond quitting substances?
0:00–1:48
2
How did Jon Gustin's relationship with substances begin?
1:48–2:59
3
What was the emotional rock bottom that led to Jon's recovery?
2:59–3:58
4
What daily practices helped Jon stay sober?
3:58–4:56
5
How did stoicism influence Jon's recovery journey?
4:56–5:49
6
What role did Jon's family play in his sobriety?
5:49–6:46
7
How does Jon manage stress and chaos in parenting?
6:46–7:24
8
What insights does Jon share about addiction and self-awareness?
7:24–24:42
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from The Daily Stoic
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