Operation Spider’s Web was an audacious Ukrainian sneak attack that caused billions of dollars in damage to Russian warplanes — using drones that cost as little as $600.Marc Santora, a reporter covering the war in Ukraine for The New York Times, explains why this strike on Sunday, which extended 3,000 miles into Russia, is already being seen as a signal event in the evolution of modern warfare.Guest: Marc Santora, has been reporting from Ukraine since the beginning of the war with Russia.Background readingIn its attacks on Russian airfields, Ukraine aimed for a strategic and symbolic blow.Ukraine showed it can still flip the script on how wars are waged.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.Photo: Capella Space/Handout, via Reuters Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: What is Operation Spider's Web?
From The New York Times, I'm Nathalie Ketrouef. This is The Daily. Today, the story of Operation Spider's Web, an audacious sneak attack by Ukraine that caused billions of dollars in damage to Russian warplanes, with drones that cost as little as $600. My colleague Mark Santora explains why this strike is already being seen as a defining moment in the evolution of modern warfare.
It's Wednesday, June 4th. Mark, we're coming to you because you are one of the correspondents who has been on the ground for the longest in Ukraine. You've been reporting from the front lines, embedding with the Ukrainian military. And we now know what happened this past Sunday was unlike anything we have seen so far in this war.
You and a team of reporters have been working to uncover exactly what went down, how it went down, and I want to get to those specifics here today. But first, can you just take us through the events as you experienced them on Sunday?
Chapter 2: What happened during the sneak attack on Russian airfields?
Sure. So, you know, you get used to a lot of reports of explosions every day here, whether it's here in Ukraine or something going on in Russia. But on Sunday, around 1 o'clock, we started to get these really strange reports of... explosions at airfields 3,000 miles from Ukraine. First, we saw reports of explosions at an airfield all the way in Siberia.
And as they started to come in, we started to get videos of how these attacks were being conducted. And it was really weird looking, right? Because, you know, we're used to long-range Ukrainian drone strikes going after, you know, Russian targets inside of Russia.
But here, we saw these trucks parked on the side of the road and then these small little quadcopters rising up from the trailer and taking off. And then, you know, cut images to burning planes and airfields.
Chapter 3: How did Ukraine execute this drone operation?
And so it quickly became apparent that in terms of how this strike was executed, in terms of its ambition, in terms of what it might mean for the war going forward, that this was something different. This was a signal event in this war.
Okay, so a very big deal attack carried out in what seems to be a pretty sophisticated way. How did this happen, Mark? How did Ukraine pull this off?
Well, this is Ukraine's answer to a problem that has bedeviled them throughout this war, which is how do you stop massive long-range Russian missile bombardments? And these are launched from planes flying deep in Russian territory. They're missiles fired from ships and submarines out at sea, from land-based systems far inside of Russia. So basically out of the reach of the Ukrainians.
And these bombardments... have become so routine in Ukraine that people can actually time when they want to go to the shelter by what's happening. For instance, a Russian bomber will take off from an air base deep in Russia, and you'll get a warning saying that the bombers are at the starting line. A warning like on your phone? Yeah, a warning on your phone.
It'll say Russian bombers TU-95 at the starting line. So that means you have about two hours until they get to the launch point. You'll get an alarm. Missiles have been launched. Then you know if you're in Kyiv, say, and depending on where the launch is from, you know you have two, three hours for a cruise missile.
Wow. It's like a countdown to an attack on your phone live.
Yeah. So these bombers, everyone in Ukraine is intimately familiar with now, the TU-95. And it's kind of gone in waves in the war. The more U.S. support they got with Patriot missiles and other things, the more secure people in some cities felt. As American support has faded, some of that feeling of security has faded with it because there's only a few really advanced weapon systems available.
that can go after Russia's most advanced missiles. And Ukraine never had enough of them, but as America pulls back, they have even less.
So it sounds like the Ukrainian government looks at this problem and says, okay, this is what we need to solve. How do we stop these long-range missile attacks from these Russian bombers?
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Chapter 4: Why are drones crucial for Ukraine in this war?
I mean, honestly, it's kind of hard to imagine how Ukraine would have survived without drones. And, you know, going to the front line over the last three years, you've just seen how they've transformed the battlefield.
I mean, every time now if we go out to a front line position with the Ukrainians, you have someone riding on the front seat with a shotgun because really that's one of the only defenses against some of these kinds of smaller drones. So they're able to use these drones to hold defensive positions with fewer people than they might otherwise need.
But, Mark, how does this strategy, while successful on the front lines, get at that original problem we were talking about, which is striking Russia where it hurts in Russian territory, hitting these bombers?
So, first of all, you know, all these guys on the front line, they're watching every day as Russian missiles and bombs are hitting the towns and cities where their families live. So they, just like everyone else, are, you know, desperate to find a way to do something about this.
And so Ukraine begins another kind of drone program, which is to make long range drones, not these small sort of little quadcopters, but drones that can fly hundreds of miles and carry powerful payloads of explosives. So Ukraine for the first time strikes a Russian airfield all the way back in December 2022. But Russia obviously starts to adapt to this new capability Ukraine has.
They've got robust air defenses, but also they start taking other measures. They build fortifications around fuel depots at airports. They build decoys the size of fighter jets to confuse Ukraine. the Ukrainians as to what's where. They put tires on the wings of planes in the hopes that if there is an explosion at the airport, the shrapnel doesn't do damage.
They do a number of steps that, you know, taken together, make it exceedingly hard for the Ukrainians to strike a blow that will do more than glancing damage.
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Chapter 5: What was the strategy behind hiding the drones?
So again, the solution isn't there yet.
Right. So about a year and a half ago, the Ukrainians decide they need to try something different. And they come up with this very secret plan, so secret the Ukrainians say they didn't even tell the Americans.
They try and find a way to bring these small drones, the ones that have been so effective on the front, into Russia, close to these air bases where these bombers are based, in the hopes that they can use them to catch the Russians by surprise. and maybe at least slow the Russian bombardments down and give them more of a fighting chance. And they call this Operation Spider's Web.
We'll be right back. Okay, Mark, take us inside this operation, Operation Spider's Web.
So there's a lot we don't know, and we're still working to piece it together. But what we do know is that this operation was so high profile that President Zelensky himself oversaw it. We know it was so secretive they didn't even tell the Americans. And we know the goal was to secret these drones into Russia and close to these air bases so they can hit these bombers.
So Ukraine has to do two things for this operation to be pulled off successfully. They have to hide the drones, and they have to train the drones. And let's start with the hiding. They start with thinking to themselves, what is the most common, ubiquitous thing you see on the roads?
And it's shipping containers, these nondescript, hulking metal boxes that you see going up and down highways every day and you don't give a second thought. They make a decision that they're going to turn those containers into a much more sophisticated weapons delivery system. And what does that look like? Well, think of a Russian nesting doll, right?
Where you have the big doll, inside the big doll is a smaller doll and a smaller doll. So you have this container with a roof that can be popped off by remote control. But then inside of that container, we have another container. And that container holds the drones, and beneath the drones, chargers for those drones.
And the roof of that smaller container can also pop off, at which point the drones can take off into the sky and launch their attack the minute they get the signal to go.
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Chapter 6: How did Ukraine train the drones for their mission?
Yeah, I mean, I think obviously one of the big questions the Kremlin is wrestling with is how in the world could Ukraine have penetrated so deeply for so long to pull this off? And I think that's a, you know, we don't know the answer to that.
Okay, so once they have these drones trained up, they have them hidden, they're in the country, what's the next step?
It's time to attack. On Sunday, around 1.06 p.m., they get the order. The roof of these containers pops up, the roof containing the drones pops off, and the drones start to take to the air. And then we start to see explosions, clouds of smoke rising up from airfields. And at the same time, drones rising from containers are going and attacking airfields across Russia.
And then we start to get from our intelligence sources direct video views from these drones on their attack mission. There's one really compelling one where you see from the drone's vantage point, the same thing the drone pilot would see, it flying over an airfield as two, three bombers are on fire and it dives in to hit another one.
And so you start to see these just wildly dramatic images coming out and the attack is underway.
Yeah, I've seen these videos. We've published them. It really starts to look at this point like a movie, like some sort of scene from Mission Impossible or something. I mean, this moment is just remarkable to watch in real time.
Yeah, you know, it's really one of the kind of incredible things about this war that I don't even think we've fully understood, which is just how much of it has unfolded before the cameras. But, you know, videos, they can lie or not tell the whole story.
So our colleagues on visual investigations basically set to work right away to try and piece together both the videos coming from Ukrainian intelligence, but also Russian civilians, as well as satellite images, which are still coming out to try and understand, OK, what They were able to orchestrate this attack, but what effect did it have?
And where we are now, I think, 48 hours after the attack unfolded is we can say with confidence that more than a dozen Russian bombers and planes suffered damage, quite extensive in many cases. The Ukrainians say that the number could be as high as 41, and that amounts to, if the Ukrainian account is correct, $7 billion in damage done by drones that cost a few thousand dollars apiece.
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Chapter 7: What is the significance of this operation in modern warfare?
It's just remarkable to imagine these tiny, cheap little drones having that kind of an impact. But Mark, as you've said, we've seen drones being used in this conflict for a long time now. What's different about this time?
Yeah. So, I mean, aside from just the boldness of this attack, it is sort of an evolution in a revolution. And the revolution of drones, for anyone who hasn't been paying attention, I think this attack should drive that home. How it can both affect what militaries think about in terms of their force protection, what they choose to invest in.
It's kind of like if you were to think about other moments in wars where a new weapon comes to life, the weapon might have existed a bit, but then it's just used to great effect. So in World War II, for instance, you had the Germans using the V-1 and V-2 rockets to bombard London. You know, it would be some time, but that augured in the error of the missile.
And we've seen how missiles transformed, you know, how... countries fight or think about fighting or plan for fighting. And I think when it comes to drones, they've been around a while. Obviously, what's happened here in Ukraine is it's gotten supercharged.
And just the amount of adaptation and evolution that we've seen over the course of three and a half years has forced everyone who's paying attention to rethink some of those doctrines that were long held about what does it take to, you know, both win on the battlefield and also, you know, to prepare for the next fight.
I also feel like there's another reason this attack is really important, and that's just the timing of it. It comes just a few months after Trump sat with Zelensky in the Oval Office and said Ukraine was not in a good position in its negotiations with Russia over peace, that it didn't have any cards.
And now Zelensky and Ukraine have orchestrated this pretty advanced attack after a long stretch where Russia was dominating the battlefield, right? It's like he's saying, Zelensky's saying, no, wait, we actually do have some cards. Here they are. And so I'm wondering, Mark, how this affects the ongoing talks between Russia and Ukraine.
So first of all, you know, we talked about how this was a year and a half in the planning. So while President Zelensky was in the Oval Office being berated, he knew that this plot was, you know, being cooked up. So in any case, he knew he had some cards in his back pocket. Right. I think, you know, we talked a lot about what was Ukraine's goal with this operation.
And obviously a central goal was security. to slow down these bombardments. But there was a secondary goal, which was to raise the cost of this war for the Kremlin. The Ukrainian theory of how do you stop this war is you have to force the Russians to stop. Diplomacy has so far failed.
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