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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

The Best of SBS: NBA's Toughest (ft. Stephen Jackson, Joakim Noah, & Baron Davis)

01 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What happened during the Malice in the Palace?

4.233 - 5.233 Stephen Jackson

Kings Network.

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26.896 - 47.056 Dan Le Batard

Welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm very excited to do this one for a number of reasons. Steven Jackson played 17 years in the NBA, unrelentingly authentic, an NBA champion. But so how things escalate, you're surrounded by paying customers and at some point here, Ron Artest gets hit with a drink.

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47.076 - 53.943 Dan Le Batard

So take me through this from your perspective, what it is that you're seeing and what it is that you're remembering here through this.

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53.963 - 72.917 Stephen Jackson

But at this point, Pause. Can we pause it? Yeah, pause that real quick. At this point, so right now, Ron has come on the table. His therapist told him when something happens like that during the game, go somewhere, lay down, or, you know, just try to put some headphones on and block out. He did exactly what they told him to do.

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72.897 - 94.148 Stephen Jackson

But at this time, Ben is walking off, Ron is laying down, but the players on the other team, they're still talking and still pushing and stuff. So during that time, I walk around, y'all a little bit ahead, but I walk around and I pull out my jersey. and square up with Rip Hamilton and Leslie Hunter. Rip Hamilton is a friend of mine. This is a good friend of mine.

94.168 - 111.451 Stephen Jackson

I just told you we was in a McDonald's game together. But it's just a rivalry at the time, so we willing to go at each other. You did pull out the shirt. I'm not squaring up. I'm squaring up. If that's what y'all want to do, we trying to break it up, but y'all still talking. So let's fight. That's what we going to do. You were the only one who pulled out his jersey, though, and squared up.

111.552 - 132.866 Stephen Jackson

Like, I need to be, you know, this is what we about to do, right? So I seen that that's really what it was. They really didn't want to fight. You know, so I'm glad because I didn't want to have that bad blood with Rip. I love Rip Hamilton. That's my real friend. And so I end up going back to, like, by Ron, and by that time, as I'm going back, the beer comes, and now you can play the tape.

132.886 - 154.494 Stephen Jackson

Ron goes first. I'm right behind him. But as you see, pause it, pause it, pause it. As you see, this is another reason why I should feel like I should get my money back. If I was going in the stands to just throw punches, it's 100 people that I jumped past that I could have punched. I went up about eight, nine rows. I didn't hit nobody on my way up there. I didn't push anybody.

155.416 - 178.059 Stephen Jackson

And if going up one, you're going to see me, I go straight to Ron to grab Ron. I don't punch nobody. I'm on my way to grab Ron. Look, I grab him. As soon as I get to Ron, I put my hand on him. A guy throws another beer in his face. I'm like, come on, bro. All bets off after that. You ain't finna get away with that. And that's when I was forced to throw that punch.

Chapter 2: How did Joakim Noah transition from the Bulls to the Knicks?

290.197 - 307.598 Stephen Jackson

The fans, they're thugs. It was solely about the fans. The next morning, we getting dragged. Oh, we like, hold up, bro. We was at work. Oh, y'all not gonna talk about them throwing stuff at the bus when we leave and y'all ain't gonna bring up none of that. Oh, we know what this is about. This is about the business of basketball.

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308.079 - 326.909 Stephen Jackson

This is about black athletes with all this money should be acting like this. We trying to change the dress code and change this shit anyway. You know what? We gonna use them as an example. That was dead ass wrong. And they know they wrong. And that's why I'm glad that the documentary came out by no response from them or even try to fix this shit.

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326.929 - 331.999 Stephen Jackson

When they see how wrong the league was, that shows exactly how they stand on that side.

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331.979 - 349.285 Dan Le Batard

Have you come to grips? I know we started with some of this because it seems bittersweet. This is you're one of the few people your age who could be on the on the cover of what up the all the smoke is and, you know, be with your arms crossed still at your age. And everyone knows that it comes with a street credibility and a loyalty.

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349.305 - 357.818 Dan Le Batard

The person that is there, everyone knows, feels like they know what he's about, but they know this much about what you're about. If this is all they're using.

357.798 - 385.413 Stephen Jackson

They don't. That's not even 10 percent. The lawyer part of me. Yeah, you see that on me. You see that I'm a solid guy, but I'm so much more than that. And you know what, Dan? I don't care if people that don't matter to me look at a different way. I don't. But because I don't come in contact with you. You're not in my daily life. I care about the people I'm around.

385.613 - 401.781 Stephen Jackson

I care about the people I work with. I care about the people that I'm willing to do things for and reach out to and do give back. I care about those people because that means something to me. Because I'm around you. Because we cross each other every day. I want you to know that you have a lawyer person around you.

401.841 - 419.805 Stephen Jackson

I want you to know that you have somebody that's going to speak up for you the same way I talk about you the same way when you're not around. I want you to know that I am considering myself the most solid guy ever. I want you to know that's where I stand. But if you're not around me, I'm not going to put in that effort to let you know how great I am. Because it doesn't matter.

420.225 - 424.651 Stephen Jackson

The people around me need to know that. And that's how I live my life.

Chapter 3: What challenges did Baron Davis face with the Clippers?

546.229 - 569.083 Stephen Jackson

Golden State by far. Why was that? Because we showed up to practice together. We left practice together. We went to dinner together. We went to the strip clubs together. We went to family meetings together. We did everything together. Everything. And to the point where we had the management of our team using some of our slang, you know, our slang words to address each other.

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569.123 - 579.1 Stephen Jackson

So we were a real family. Like I said, I don't think you'll ever find a team where you got four or five guys that all got married and they all did each other's weddings.

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584.918 - 603.062 Dan Le Batard

I'm excited to do this one because I really admire Joe Kim Noah for a number of different reasons. I mean, obviously, he's a champion defensive player of the year, top five and MVP voting. But one of the things that I love about you is that I always thought that you were willfully tough in a way that was unreasonable, that you were playing unfairly.

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603.042 - 622.491 Dan Le Batard

through a great deal of pain, and also that you're a bit of an artist who was always himself in a world where I wondered how he got along with everybody because it seemed like you were built a little bit differently. And the world that you occupied was an interesting one to me from afar. So I'm happy that you're going to allow me to explore it a little bit with you today.

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622.611 - 624.214 Joakim Noah

Respect that. Nice to be here.

624.234 - 627.919 Dan Le Batard

I don't think the average person understands the kind of shape that you were in.

629.283 - 657.585 Joakim Noah

Um, I think being in shape was something that came natural for me. I, I played with, uh, a lot of fear, you know, just always feeling like, did I train? Like, I don't think I trained enough. So I was always doing extra, uh, because I, I was this fear of losing, um, of not being good enough. Uh, I think that

658.814 - 674.022 Joakim Noah

You know, a lot of it before the injuries and the pain, it's like it's it's really mental. And it's like what gets you there? What's what emotions help you get through the hard part?

674.677 - 696.528 Dan Le Batard

The tools. What are the emotions that help you there? Because you're talking about you mentioned self-work. I don't know when you started doing that. I don't know that the athletic space allows for it very much. If you have to be singularly minded about like getting ahead. Did you mention that phrase purposefully or is it is it something that post career you've you've had to get tools with?

Chapter 4: How do players cope with public scrutiny and personal struggles?

942.791 - 971.072 Joakim Noah

Like, Fuck that. You know, you have to move on from that eventually. You know, like the persona that I had in Chicago was a different one in New York. Like, absolutely. Did I want that back at all costs? Absolutely. But it taught me a lot as well. Just like, OK, this is this is actually not making me happy anymore. You know, this chase for, you know, for the glory.

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971.052 - 1004.406 Joakim Noah

Um, that's not what it was anymore. So I had to dig deep. Um, I got kicked off the Knicks. Um, you know, I got into it with the coach and, um, I got suspended for drugs. You know, that's all like really heavy stuff on a, in a really, really public platform. But I was able to, and I, when I got kicked off the Knicks, it was February. I didn't make a team. I didn't make a team until November.

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1005.067 - 1042.723 Joakim Noah

So for six months I was free. I was getting paid a lot of money and I was free to figure this out for myself. And, um, it was deep, man. You know, I, I traveled, I went to, I did ayahuasca therapy. I mean, I just, I went all in and, um, I trained every day by myself. It was not a coach telling me practices at this time, you know, no, I got a trainer, um,

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1043.378 - 1069.512 Joakim Noah

I went to go work out at Laird and Gabby's every day, sauna, ice, whatever I could find to help me get to where I needed to go. And you know what? In November, when I signed with the Memphis Grizzlies, I went by myself and I was coming off the bench. It was a completely different situation. Atmosphere, different vibe.

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1069.692 - 1089.315 Joakim Noah

And, you know, I'm really proud of that because I came back from from a long, long, dark journey. And I was able to appreciate the game and just being out there and enjoying my 15 minutes a night. And it was just back to the simple things of just enjoying playing basketball.

1089.295 - 1112.205 Dan Le Batard

I don't think people understand how difficult that had to be for you in that six month period. You're talking about swimming through the darkness, needing some sea therapy and needing some general spiritual healing on. Oh, shit. It's it's almost over. Like, I'm going to have to really fight to get back. It's it's almost all ruined and over. And I didn't have warning. And what do you mean?

1112.265 - 1127.712 Dan Le Batard

It's drugs. And I'm fighting with the coach. And now I've got to check in on my identity and who am I without basketball? Am I going to be my own man these six months? Am I going to be, like, you must be as proud of getting to Memphis as you are of winning Defensive Player of the Year.

1127.973 - 1131.84 Joakim Noah

Absolutely. That's deep.

1135.87 - 1158.705 Dan Le Batard

I will explore deeper asking you about what it was like for you at the loneliest in New York. You go there. Phil Jackson goes to your house to recruit you. They're making you their big free agent priority. You're going home. All of your dreams are going to be made real. You've been defensive player of the year. You're still ascending in your mind to the top of the sport, correct?

Chapter 5: What insights can be gained from the experiences of NBA players?

1388.722 - 1399.844 Joakim Noah

Um, And as the workouts kept going, I feel like I got better and better at it. It really translated onto the court.

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1400.385 - 1418.243 Dan Le Batard

Relaxed amid panic, you're training with one of the world's best surfers and a professional volleyball player. You're testing the capacity of your lungs and it is bringing you healing to test yourself this way as opposed to testing yourself against others.

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1419.337 - 1433.998 Joakim Noah

It was very healing because there was nobody out there telling me anything. No noise. It's just you and your thoughts. And sometimes the demons are between your ears.

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1435.56 - 1459.182 Dan Le Batard

How did you cope with that? How do you cope with that? The demons between your ears? Because you have told me off air here that the... The expressing of things is not necessarily for you. It's not necessarily the way that you've been built. It doesn't mean that you wouldn't be somebody aspirationally who'd want to be that. But free spirit isn't a lot in the speech.

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1459.322 - 1461.387 Dan Le Batard

It's in movement and in energies.

1461.748 - 1461.848

Yeah.

1462.165 - 1488.556 Joakim Noah

And peace of mind. I think peace of mind is just... It's the most important thing. Can you be comfortable in the uncomfortable moments? That's what it's always been about. And things that were comfortable were not comfortable anymore. So how do I do that? You just got to push yourself. And... and navigate to navigate just how, how do I get my peace of mind back?

1488.636 - 1502.432 Joakim Noah

I got a lot of my peace of mind being underwater with nobody talking to me under, um, this pressure of feeling like I need to breathe and just relaxing myself and getting through it and getting the job done.

1502.732 - 1505.555 Dan Le Batard

What do you want to see from young players today?

Chapter 6: How does the culture within a team impact player performance?

1708.54 - 1731.445 Joakim Noah

Head up, soldier. Come on. Big game three coming up. This isn't over. I feel for him because I know he's playing on one leg. Been through a lot, you know, just being able to play the way that he played earlier in the year and to not have your body respond mentally is one of the hardest things ever.

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1732.085 - 1737.871 Dan Le Batard

And now the scars after all these years, all of them are healed? Everything, everything? No, not everything is healed.

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1738.212 - 1762.071 Joakim Noah

I wouldn't say all of them are healed. I mean, I think you learn to live with it. And but yeah, it's. It's not, you know, those losses, I'll live with that for the rest of my life. But I'll be able to talk about it, but I'm not going to lie and say I'm all the way healed. Which are the ones you're thinking of?

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1764.127 - 1793.003 Joakim Noah

I mean, all those games, you know, ending the seasons, you know, when you're in a routine for, you know, 200 days straight where you know exactly where I am, what I'm doing for 200 days, and then season's over, and then, boom, you got three months off to think about it. Those first four or five days are dark. And I'll say that even when we were winning championships at Florida...

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1793.742 - 1817.114 Joakim Noah

you know, having, you know, winning the championship, you know, it's like the best feeling in the world. You know, you reach the pinnacle, you know, it's, you're, The highs of living and winning a championship are so real. And then whatever goes up, it must come down.

1818.776 - 1838.407 Dan Le Batard

Well, but especially when you care the way you do. Like if it's that unreasonable, if you're treating them as near deaths, if we're talking about them 10 years later and you're saying, I'm not healed and I never will be. And having a certain pride about that, like you don't even want to be. No, I want to live in a higher plane where it hurts like that. No, I don't want to.

1839.729 - 1843.656 Dan Le Batard

You'd rather get it off of you. You'd rather find the healing tools to get it off of you.

1843.796 - 1854.816 Joakim Noah

Yes, absolutely. I'm working on that. I work on it every day. And even doing this, it helps because, you know, you're talking about vulnerable moments, you know.

1855.69 - 1874.706 Dan Le Batard

But losing is allowed. It's part of it. Like losing, failure is routinely a part of it. I've talked the last couple of months here about how bad I am at treating failure as immediately, gently as learning. I don't do it well. I wish I could do it well. Mm-hmm. You're talking about failing publicly.

Chapter 7: What lessons can be learned from the Clippers' dysfunction?

2094.01 - 2118.615 Baron Davis

He is a hate everybody is. He don't give a shit. He don't understand blacks, Latinos, Asians, white people. He don't understand shit. He's delusional. And so whatever he says to you is like whatever the fuck he's thinking. And he is beyond ignorant, right?

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2119.136 - 2142.038 Baron Davis

And so when you have that much money and you use the team as your scapegoat, if you use the team as a media play for your other business, like he wasn't a basketball fan. Basketball was just a real estate holding that he probably didn't even like, but he knew it gave him fame and notoriety and shit like that.

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2142.598 - 2163.326 Baron Davis

I would have to walk into the Clipper practice site and see the person in community relations bawling her eyes out. Now I gotta go to work, just like she at work, but I gotta stop. Going into the gym, getting my shit together to make sure like, hey man, don't worry about it. You know what I mean? He ain't gonna do nothing.

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2164.608 - 2190.745 Baron Davis

I became now the only person who cared about other people because I saw with the Clippers, there was no care. Everybody was there telling on each other, snitching on each other, backstabbing people. And the people who were actually honest and working and hardworking that were scared and terrified, they had nowhere to go. You know what I mean? They had nowhere to go. And people need a paycheck.

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2190.765 - 2217.909 Baron Davis

You ain't getting no other job coming from the Clippers back then. Ain't nobody hiring no motherfuckers from the Clippers. So, like, you are at the bottom of the bottom in the worst environment and environment You worked for him. It didn't matter with the team. The team was just a tool. The players were just tools, right? They were never to be understood by him.

2219.532 - 2226.141 Baron Davis

And so when you have people like Ramona or other, Well, not just that because they were at the center.

2226.982 - 2237.876 Dan Le Batard

Before George Floyd, there's all sorts of stuff being moved around politically on black-white causes. Doc Rivers has to decide whether to boycott a game.

2238.116 - 2264.411 Baron Davis

Oh, man, that's bullshit, man. That's bullshit. That's bullshit. I don't know the real story. I went in the locker. I went to that game. I literally went to that game because I wanted to see what they were going to do. You know what I mean? And when you look at that squad, none of them dudes was playing like, all of a sudden, oh, you hella woke because the media say you gotta be woke.

2265.953 - 2301.021 Baron Davis

If you was that woke, if you cared that much, if you was standing up to racism, if you wanted to make a statement, why the fuck didn't you not play that game? Suckers. They weak. It's weak. It was weak. Everybody in the league was ready to shut down for you. And what y'all do, y'all turn y'all jerseys over, ran out there, got y'all ass whooped, and asked for people to feel sorry for you.

Chapter 8: How do past experiences shape a player's identity and future?

2510.132 - 2534.912 Baron Davis

I don't have to do all the, I just play point guard. I really just wanna play point guard and run offense and shit. I don't wanna do all this shit. That's why I went to the Clippers, because I felt like, all right, they got two big dudes. They got Coutinho, Mobley, you know what I mean? We got a cool four right now. Tim Thomas, we had size and talent and dogs. You just had a coach.

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2534.892 - 2559.394 Baron Davis

Once Elton Brand didn't come, then everything just kind of fell out. Marcus Camby we traded for. Marcus Camby show up to training camp Thursday and then don't show up for two weeks. He about to retire. I gotta go find Marcus Camby, sit with him. He like, man, fuck this shit. You know what I mean? Because Denver traded him. It's just all the shit that people go through. You know what I mean?

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2559.434 - 2583.312 Baron Davis

Right from the start, I could not walk in and play basketball. The very first day of media, the media guy comes up to me and say, look, he pulls me to the side, he said, I know you having fun, I'm just gonna let you know, when he comes in here, don't get upset, don't get offended. He may or may not say something to you that'll offend you, or he may say some shit.

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2583.332 - 2599.674 Baron Davis

I'm like, what are you talking, this is media day, what are you talking about? I'm thinking a reporter. He's talking about the owner, dude. So he didn't say Donald Sterling. He just said he. He. He might come in here. He might come in here and say the wildest shit to you. Be careful. Don't get upset. Y'all in a good mood.

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2599.934 - 2611.71 Baron Davis

Because everybody would say, before I got there, when the season started, man, it's fucked up around here. Everybody has nothing but negative energy and negative shit to say.

2612.365 - 2613.988 Dan Le Batard

You didn't know any of this beforehand?

2614.528 - 2640.827 Baron Davis

I mean, no. Not like that. Yeah, not like that. All teams are dysfunctional. I just came from the Warriors. You know what I mean? When an owner, he'd be riding a bike when he hung over. You know what I mean? Everybody's got something. He was a hot mess. You know what I mean? But at the time, but not like this.

2641.327 - 2667.783 Baron Davis

This was like, with the Warriors, like okay, that's the owner, you like him, you don't like him. It was a separation between what he does for the team versus what he do for himself. This situation was like, you cannot detach nobody from nothing. Everybody's a spy. Everybody's lying to move up or to save their face. And then Mike Dunleavy has all the power.

2669.628 - 2692.573 Baron Davis

So he can literally say whatever the fuck you want to the owner or to anybody. Right. About anybody. And so like when you have leadership like that. It's a circus. I remember in training camp, I was like, man, this is fucked up. This is a circus. Like I ain't never seen no shit like this. I would say that every day in practice.

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