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The Documentary Podcast

War, God and the Islamic Republic

19 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What impact has the recent war had on Iranians' faith?

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This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

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6.14 - 31.557 Marin Alsop

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54.689 - 80.798 Emily Wither

I'm at a reading in Istanbul of the Shahnameh, or Book of Kings, written a thousand years ago. It's an epic poem of over 50,000 verses, laced with tragedy, battles and one's inner struggle. Through it, the Persian poet Ferdowsi recounts a legendary history of Iran, from the dawn of time to the fall of the Persian Empire in the 7th century.

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80.778 - 114.776 Emily Wither

But it's so much more than just a book of myths and legends. It lies at the heart of Iranian culture, and groups of Iranians gather around the world to read this text aloud. These days, its themes of nationalism, resistance and freedom resonate strongly with some Iranians who have spent most of this year living through war, repression and economic hardship.

115.497 - 126.673 Emily Wither

It's just one example of Persian poetry that Iranians inside the country tell us they've taken comfort in as hardship and disillusionment around Islam has taken hold.

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MUSIC Many Iranians turn to ancient spiritual texts to find answers to fundamental questions and also to gain inner peace. In recent years, people who have distanced themselves from religion have turned to the works of Rumi and other mystics.

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However, most of those who are disillusioned with religion show a greater interest in Ferdows' Shahnameh, and contrary to Ferdows' own ideas, they sometimes refer to the Shahnameh as being in opposition to Islam. In fact, they consider Ferdows' rationalism to be in opposition to superstition. Like many ancient works, the Shahnameh can be interpreted in different ways.

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This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

Chapter 2: How have personal spiritual practices changed in Iran?

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Since childhood I was interested in spirituality and I began praying even before reaching puberty. I continued praying until my early youth. I was interested in religious rituals but not anymore. During the month of Muharram, some people organize morning processions, and I used to take part in such gatherings in the past.

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Now, I not only see this as spiritually meaningless, but as a form of public disturbance, causing traffic congestion and noise pollution. By my teenage years, I would often discuss religious issues with my father and challenge his beliefs.

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462.811 - 479.547 Emily Wither

Muharram is the first month of the Islamic calendar during which Shia Muslims commemorate the death of Imam Hussein, the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad, who was killed at the Battle of Karbala. This mother and son come from a religious family. The woman's husband didn't want her working outside the home.

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480.127 - 491.738 Emily Wither

And her son says his father never cared about material wealth, believing that sustenance is provided by God. He says because of that, life growing up was tough as the family struggled for money.

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When it comes to religion, I have reminded my children of the point I considered necessary for their upbringing, but I also gave them freedom and avoided forcing them. The main difference between my parenting style and my children upbringing is coercion. Although my own family wasn't strict either, the atmosphere in the family created a kind of compulsion and I didn't have much freedom.

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The religion in Iran has significantly faded in recent years, and the main reason for this has been the decisions and actions of the leaders of the Islamic Republic and their supporters. This is upsetting for me. Throughout history, many governments have appeared religious, but in reality, religion has been a means of gaining powers and wealth.

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Well, even when I had religious inclinations and used to pray, I was not in agreement with the Islamic Republic. At that time, I opposed the Islamic Republic on religious and theological grounds. Because I studied history, the contradiction between my faith and the crimes of the Islamic Republic was, for me, justifiable.

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Because throughout the history of Iran and Islam, rulers have often used religion as a cover for their oppression and injustices. I'm currently opposed to the Islamic Republic and its actions have no influence on my mind or beliefs. They use Islam to persuade its supporters. I do not consider the leaders to be Muslims because they do not give importance to Allah and us.

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The rights of the people, which is highly emphasized in Islam. For me, God is a source of love, peace and light. The Islamic Republic is a symbol of darkness, violence and oppression. I have accepted the contradiction and I separate Islam from them. When people insult Islamic sacred values because of the oppression of the Islamic Republic, my heart breaks.

Chapter 3: What role does Persian poetry play in coping with hardship?

873.745 - 892.588 Emily Wither

Since March, there's been nightly rallies in major squares inside Iran, where Iranians have voiced both support for the government and anger at the war. However, I've been speaking to some who are opposed to the regime.

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892.888 - 911.554 Emily Wither

They've turned away from the Islamic Republic's state-imposed religion, instead finding solace in private prayer, Persian poetry and more personal forms of spirituality as they live through a time of war and repression.

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The God I now communicate with in prayer is quite different from the God of my childhood. When I was a child at home or at school, we were constantly reminded of a phrase, fear God. Teachers, especially religious ones, emphasize punishment and hell a lot. And they would repeatedly tell us that if we committed sin, God will burn us in the fire of hell. Over time, I moved away from this belief.

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Later, I came to understand that God is love itself, compassion itself, and now I have a more intimate relationship with God and I enjoy praying. I'm also very fond of poetry. I have memorized some poems by Hafiz Saadi and Rumi, and I listen to the work of singers such as Mohammad Reza Shaharian, Sharham Nazeri, and other performers of classical Iranian music.

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And sometimes in solitude I recite these works and I enjoy them. Some people turn to ancient texts to find answers to their questions, while others use texts purely as a psychological refuge. I haven't been praying for years. In fact, my view of the universe has changed significantly compared to the past.

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Now I even have doubts about the existence of God, but deep within me, I have always felt a great inner light that I would take refuge in. Spirituality, in my view, does not have a fixed form or framework. I fulfill my spiritual needs by reading and writing poetry, listening to music, especially the vocal works of Mohammad Reza Shajarian and reading poets such as Hafez, Khayyam and Rumi.

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Let me give you an example from Hafez that has helped me in difficult times. The garden courtyard is full of delight, and the company of friends is sweet. Blessed be the season of flowers, for it is the joyful time of wine drinkers. Mosques and morning gatherings have turned into places for justifying the crimes of the Islamic Republic.

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In reality, they no longer have the spiritual atmosphere they used to. They are mostly political. For me, during difficult times, I have been reading certain verses and surah of the Quran to find peace of heart. But I'm mostly speaking with my God in a sincere, personal way. In difficult moments, I also hum an old Iranian song. Toward you with a longing for your face.

1111.267 - 1129.074 Emily Wither

We spoke to another man in Tehran. He was also brought up in a religious family, and these days his faith has drifted to something more personal. He's in his mid-30s and also wished to remain anonymous, fearing the repercussions of talking openly to the media. His answers are voiced by an actor.

Chapter 4: How do Iranians perceive the relationship between religion and state?

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I now commune and pray with my God. No religious rituals or practices from my childhood hold any meaning for me now. It's purely the childhood memories of the Downs, Sahars and fast-breaking Iftars that remain sweet to me. Iran is becoming less religious and it's all the better for it to fade.

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1742.003 - 1763.438 Emily Wither

This episode of Heart and Soul was produced by me, Emily Wither. The series producer is Rajiv Gupta.

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1766.354 - 1780.397 Carine Torbey

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