Chapter 1: What noticeable shifts are happening in mainstream media?
Colby Hall, lots to talk about as it relates to media and especially, well, not just cable, but broadcast. Let's start with, we'll get to CNN and the whole podcast thing, but let's talk about CBS because the ratings at CBS, according to CBS News, they're going to be layoffs, right? So this is from MediaEye. This is a tough message to receive at any time.
And then over on the status, it talks about that they have these ratings wipeout, that they're plummeting ratings. So it seems like Barry Weiss, I guess at the Ellison's instructions is just killing the network because you can be as right wing as you want, but if no one's watching, what does it matter?
Yeah, it's not working for Barry at this moment. And in fairness, in full context, ratings haven't been going up as a trend for broadcast news for a long time. And it's still early in her iteration. But at the end of the day, Ratings don't lie. Like you want a quick temperature tech of what you're doing on TV is working and not working. The numbers tell you the story.
And, you know, maybe it's early into that iteration, but, you know,
Chapter 2: How are declining ratings affecting CBS and its news strategy?
I think this sort of effort to make this sort of like more sort of right wing or Trump friendly iteration, it got the FCC to approve the deal, but the public, the timing is wrong because right now Trump's approval ratings are also in the toilet. So, you know, the pivot to try to be more like Fox News Light or more sort of, you know, conservative adjacent is,
the timing is way off because most people are really frustrated and down on Trump and it's not working. It's not working at all. Now, I think Oliver's report here on status is really tough and Oliver loves to take shots at Barry. But I think Barry kind of has her, like she has an arrogance problem. She's managed this as a critic of broadcast news and not as a governor.
And so far it appears to be backfiring.
well let's see um well you're saying that it's they're not gaining but he does a comparison he says in fact numbers from cbs are an anomaly in this current television and news landscape and i guess it's because of the war uh abc news and nbc news are both set to post year-over-year gains in total audience in both their mornings and evenings and cbs's morning show is down considerably and so is all the other
programming, so somebody's not doing something right. CBS Mornings, which has not garnered much attention of its declining audience under Weiss's stewardship, is averaging 1.8 million total viewers, down 13% from the same quarter last year. While 25 to 54 audiences cratered by a staggering 28%, down to 268,000.
By comparison, ABC's Good Morning America is up 9% in total viewers and 6% in demo, while NBC's Today is up 15% in viewers, though they slipped 5% in the demo. And then World News with David Muir, by comparison, is up 8%. And let's see, NBC also, nightly news with Tommy Yamas is up 6%.
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Chapter 3: What role does audience perception play in news credibility?
But the evening news is averaging 4.3 million viewers down 7% year over year. As you said, the ratings don't lie. Come on, man.
Well, so here's my analogy. If they're trying to attract more Trump-friendly, Trump-open, Trump-curious viewers, that's a strategy. I don't know if it's journalistically sound, but it's a thing. But
When things are not going well for the Trump administration, when there is a ton of news and a lot of it isn't necessarily positive, whether it's like tariffs, the economy, inflation, price of gas, the Iran war, straits of our minutes, there's a long, long list, laundry list of losses that are coming out of the Trump administration. You know, you like college football. I love college football.
If you if your team is playing like in a big sort of bowl game and you have all this expectation and you see your team losing in a route, do you keep the game on? Do you know you turn it off or you certainly don't stay to watch the sort of like the postgame commentary? And I think that's part of what's happening here. And this again goes to what I said earlier.
The timing of going to a Trump adjacent or Trump friendly or sort of programing point of view is terrible because increasingly independents Apart from the sort of extremists, a lot of people are just over it, right? And so the extremists that are very, very pro-Trump, they already have places to go, whether it's Fox News or Newsmax. And middle Americans, they don't, they're not looking for this.
And I've said this to you before, like, I don't necessarily understand why broadcast news is still in the news business. It's a very expensive endeavor. It's increasingly irrelevant. And more and more people are getting their news from, Don Lemon Live and, you know, whether it's or Megyn Kelly, you know, there's a raft of big sort of voices out there.
Of course, you are more fact based and moderate and reasonable and smart than many of the others. But the people that still tune into broadcast news, they're aging. They're not getting younger. And, you know, I can see in five years from now where they don't even exist anymore.
Well, speaking of, you mentioned, you know, in the streaming world, do I consider, I was asked by the New York Times whether I consider myself an influencer. And I said, you know, ask me about terms. Would I consider myself?
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Chapter 4: How is the news landscape changing with personality-driven coverage?
I said, I don't mind it as long as journalists goes first. And if someone wants to call me an influencer, okay, fine. I have cultural. I do think that I have cultural influence and impact. So, you know, I would not be insulted by that. But if you want to call me a podcaster, okay, you know, but...
whatever but i'm a journalist first so let's talk about that because cnn is now you know in its most obvious sort of um indication of where they are wanting to go or maybe just what they're testing i mean if you look at this is jake tapper okay cnn's podcast look and the slow death of cable news
so you know that's anderson cooper is there talking with is that michael smirconish oh no it's not but he's talking he's got the giant old school podcast mic and i have one this is an old school mic now i started my show with that mic which is sitting at my studio in midtown right it's sort of the old one that you have on the desk sort of as a prop but mine actually worked and so anderson has this mic there um he's sitting in the control room he's got the tie you know
Undone and he's rolled up his sleeves and then Jake is in his office and let's roll some of Jake and then we'll talk about it.
So you're probably wondering what's going on, why we're in my office for the first hour of the lead today. So it's an experiment. This is my actual desk where I do my actual work, not the desk in the studio. And we thought we would bring you into the space where me and my team do our actual journalism and plan the show every day. So here we are giving it a shot.
You might also be wondering about the decor, the posters and the kerchiefs and such on my wall. Well, the theme is these are all losing president.
All right, here we go. So look, Jake, I know Jake's office. I would like I would go to the D.C. Bureau and I go, oh, shit, I forgot my tie. And Jake would say, go in my office and grab one. So this is Jake's office. Authentically, it looks like this. I'm telling you, let me just, I'm gonna caveat and say,
this and you know i did not like my exit for from cnn that is public knowledge i thought that they treated me very poorly on the way out after dedicating almost 17 years to that company however however they are the best journalists in the business i believe and and and if there's any proof of it is look at their look at what they're doing with with iran right now they're the best i have not watched it yeah they're there by wide measure but
I don't watch. I see clips, right? So I see clips because I'm doing my own thing. I'm busy. Now, I do have the MS Now on for a little bit because they go into more of the politics and they don't put on election deniers and people who are fighting.
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Chapter 5: What challenges does CNN face in adapting to new media formats?
I can't stand that. However, to me, it's cringe because... The reason people watch CNN is for the credibility of Jake and Anderson and Aaron. And there is sort of this... illusion, if you want to say it about, if you want to put it that way about, um, television news, you know, it's larger than life. The colors are brighter than in real life.
You know, the, the, the, you know, it's big fancy sets that glow and, and that's what it is. But ultimately that's eye candy. Why would people tune in for is the editorial. It is the, the, whatever the network is, um, how they're, how they are, the tone and tenor of their news. And for credibility, it's not because someone is speaking into a podcast mic with their sleeves rolled up.
And I would lean into it. We're fucking CNN. Yeah, we look great. But also we're going to have a backbone and we're going to have some teeth into our editorial. And we're going to hold this administration accountable. We're not going to put on election deniers. We're not going to put on people who come on just to lie.
just i don't know they're trying something i give them credit for that but it is so cringe to watch i am just being honest i you summed it up wonderfully and i think if anything you should be flattered on because like imitation is the sincerest form of flattery they're trying to be like you they're trying to and let's just break down why you have a strong point of view You have an audience.
You, above all else, are authentic, right? And I think that's what works well with the podcast world is that you get the sense that it's not that you are professional. You can speak in clean copy and are well media trained, but you don't have to vet scripts and what you say through legal and through executives so that you come across as very, very authentic and smart.
The problem that I have here is this sort of tries to mimic the authenticity of what you do and what other podcasters do in the most performative and sort of phony way. I mean, like, I agree with you that- You're right, it's a performance, that's it.
Thank you, you're much smart, much more articulate than I am. It's very performative.
I am, I think I'm a little more handsome. I mean, we could debate whether, anyway, but like the issue, like, I don't, again, They need to do something.
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Chapter 6: How do ratings reflect the effectiveness of news programming?
I don't fault them for trying, but that ain't it.
You know what bummed me out more than anything? And I think this was Friday and I tweeted a screen cap. I'm watching Anderson and I just take a picture on my phone and I post like, what's going on with AC360? The thing that bothered me more than anything else, I didn't mind being in the news studio or whatever, the newsroom or even the big mic. It was the very perfectly sort of undone tie.
And it just, it was clearly sort of staged, right? Like the photo of Anderson's like, come on, dude. Like they're so clearly trying to, you know, sort of channel the ghost of Edward R. Murrow. The only thing that was missing was, you know, the cigarette and the ashtray. And, you know, this came from Mark Thompson. And again, they need to do something. I don't mind them trying it.
I think they made a mistake by doing this all at once. I mean, Dana Bash did the same thing. Jake was in his office. There was, you know, Anderson. Like, it all came, it was all too sudden and it all came at once. And... You know, cable news is in a real sort of tailspin, especially CNN right now. It shows that they're trying something innovative, but it's too little too late.
Mark Thompson's been in the place for two years now, and now you're trying this? Like, I don't...
you know big mics aren't going to change it's almost like envy it's like they have there's ice queens like they're trying to answer what i mean people say that wait when i go into the daily beast uh they teach me like and i always see you with this giant microphone out in the field in this it's not that giant but you know but here's the thing um you're right about that and
Okay, I give them an A for effort. I think it's great that they're trying something, but it feels performative because everything is still being filtered through the system, right? And you still have to, and that's just the nature of it. You still have to think about what you're going to say 50 times, like, oh my God, you weigh everything, and I don't have to do that. I can say fuck if I want.
They can't really do that.
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Chapter 7: What insights can be drawn from comparing CNN to other networks?
But it is, Anderson is an icon, right? He is. And so Anderson doesn't need tricks. You know what I mean? Anderson just needs to be Anderson. And he has a personality where he can just be Anderson whether he's wearing a tie or not. So I don't fault him the tie thing. I used to not wear the tie. I'd wear the turtlenecks. I wore a hoodie. People got mad at me. I've been doing that for years.
And then I think Anderson did it for some time, especially during COVID. We were all very dressed down for the most part during COVID. So I don't think that that part is new. But just as you say, it looks performative. You know, if they're going to if they want to CNN doesn't need to to be a podcast place. If they want to go streaming, put the podcasters on there.
And if they want to do podcasters on their air, hire podcasters to do it like Amy until it's until it's that she contracts out people to do, you know, specials and documentaries contracted out to some people who already have successful shows. I'm not I'm not for myself. I'm not saying this for me, but. Get some people who do some podcasts and who do great podcasts and put it on your network.
You know, you mentioned Amy. I got to tell you, like I was speaking with a former honor talent, sort of a legend in the business. He made the point that, you know, under this new regime, like the moment that he kept sort of the old guard left over from the licked era, Amy Antalas and Virginia Guthrie and Eric Trilling, it was very clear that nothing was going to change.
Virginia Guthrie? You mean Virginia Mosley?
Yeah.
I'm sorry. Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What does the future hold for traditional news outlets in a digital age?
Mistake there. But it was clear that nothing was going to really change in that. And so that was two years ago, a year and a half ago. And he's been really focused, Mark Thompson, the new leadership on driving subscriptions and digital, all very, very important. But, you know,
he kept the old guard there and they haven't shown really any innovation or anything interesting until like just now and it feels way too little too late. I will also say, you know, I read this news- They don't know how to do it.
I will also say, but hold on one second. But they don't know how to do it and it's just not in them. They are old school, you know, through and through, born and bred.
Right, and they're not, you know what it's like in working in these big corporations that are extensively creative, like it rewards operators, right? There's alliances and it sort of, you end up sort of creating executives who are really skilled at taking credit for things that they didn't really do. and distancing themselves.
You have talent there that aren't willing to take risks, unless you have a real visionary like Jeff Zucker, who knew exactly what he wanted to do, had a very strong point of view, and was a great sort of talent coach, like a talent manager. He was sort of like the unicorn, the sort of anomaly. I do a newsletter that covers what media newsletters write. And
all the media newsletters sort of mocked CNN for this. And so I covered that and I wrote that up and I heard immediately from CNN talent who said like, so you hate it as like, no, I mean, I actually sort of defended it as like a trial. I said it was too late. I just cover what they said. But this individual said to me, like, you know, what do you suggest? Like, we've got to do something.
And I told him, like, I think CNN lost their point of view. I think they lost sort of the thing that makes you really good when you were great on CNN and even Cuomo. Like, it wasn't just the news. It was the news with a point of view. And I think they've been so beaten up by attacks from Trump and his surrogates that CNN is ā
that they're so neutral now that you don't like it reads like reuters ap news copy and that's not what people want they want at a time where you want perspective context and a strong point of view they've gone neutral so that this isn't everyone there's some some guys i think jake does a really good job of this i think aaron does a great job of this of giving the news and telling you why it's important relevant to you
But so much of that program is just like it's watching paint dry. It's just not that interesting. They do well with big news events, Iran, because they have the best news service in the world. But yeah, I don't really know how you can save it, but I don't think acting like podcasters is the way.
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