The Very American Roots of Trumpism
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What are the political stakes around Trump's immigration policies?
From New York Times Opinion, this is The Ezra Klein Show. A number of people I respect and often agree with have been making different versions of the same point. Immigration is one of Trump's best issues and one of the worst issues for Democrats. The economy is where Trump is now weak. So if you really care about the dangers Donald Trump poses, you need to beat him. And that means focusing the country's attention on his worst issues, the places where he is most beatable. Nate Silver submitted a version of this argument, and so did California Governor Gavin Newsom.
Yeah, it's, you know, this is the distraction of the day. The art of distraction. Don't get distracted by distractions, we say, and here we zig and zag. This is the debate they want.
This is their 80-20 issue as they've described it. And I want to give this argument its due. It's not without merit. Optimal political strategy is usually to keep the focus on your opponent's worst issues. For Donald Trump right now, it's his decision to light the global economy on fire. From that perspective, focusing on Abrego Garcia is a distraction. Trump's meeting with President Bukele is a distraction. And getting distracted is bad politics. Focus on the tariffs. Focus on the stock market chaos. Focus. But I think there are two things wrong with this. One is that the polling here isn't clear. Yes, Democrats have become afraid on the issue of immigration. They see that as a winner for Donald Trump.
But if you look at the polling on rule of law, on due process, to the extent this is framed that way, which it should be, that's actually what this is about, then Democrats are in a much better position. People do not want the Trump administration to be able to randomly disappear people living in this country without due process. But I think this argument reflects a generalized collapse of roles and time across the political system. If this was October 2026 and you're running a congressional campaign, then what you focus on is a hard question and you should pay pretty damn close attention to the pulse. If you're choosing how to write and spend money on ads, same thing. And I wish you luck figuring it out.
But not everything that everyone else says between now and October 2026 can or should be poll tested. It is a thin vision of politics to back literally everything out from elections. When Senator Chris Van Hollen went to El Salvador, and I'm very glad he did, he was representing his constituent, Obrego Garcia's wife, a U.S. citizen and a Maryland resident, whose husband had been disappeared by the president.
His conversation with me was the first communication he'd had with anybody outside of prison since he was abducted. He said he felt very sad about being in a prison because he had not committed any crimes. When I asked him what was the one thing he would ask for in addition to his freedom, he said he wanted to talk to his wife, Jennifer. I told him I would work very hard to make that happen.
How does the Trump administration's approach to immigration reflect historical patterns?
That is Van Hollen's job. That is constituent service of the highest order. And the rest of us, we have other jobs, other roles, and they're not all about winning elections. We're in the midst of an attempted authoritarian breakthrough. I don't think there's another way to say that. How much opposition the Trump administration faces from other corridors and other power centers will matter to what they do. If it's easy to deport people to an El Salvadoran prison, they're going to do a lot more of it. One lesson from history, I think, one reason I am so focused here, is that when the machine of disappearing people begins rolling, when that becomes a tactic, it can roll pretty damn far if it's not stopped early. It's the same with Trump's effort to break the universities, to break the law firms, to break the government. If it's easy, they will keep going. They will do more of it.
They will do it faster. If it's hard, they might not. They also have limited bandwidth, limited energy, limited attention, limited resources. The election isn't next week. We have more than 550 days until just the midterms. Civil society needs to act in the interim. There is not just one job here, and we are not in the final two weeks of an election campaign.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What are the political stakes around Trump's immigration policies?
0:05–3:46
2
How does the Trump administration's approach to immigration reflect historical patterns?
3:46–13:34
3
Who is Steven Hahn and what is 'Illiberal America' about?
13:34–16:59
4
What is illiberalism and how is it embedded in American history?
16:59–24:15
5
How does Alexis de Tocqueville's 'Democracy in America' relate to American illiberalism?
24:15–27:21
6
What was Andrew Jackson's role in the history of American illiberalism?
27:21–41:22
7
How did the Red Scare and the Palmer Raids reflect illiberal tendencies in America?
41:22–1:01:26
8
What parallels exist between McCarthyism and current political populism?
1:01:26–1:13:10