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Chapter 1: What historical significance does Shinnecock Hills have in the U.S. Open?
I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a fried egg, fried egg, the dreaded fried egg, fried egg, fried egg, fried egg, fried egg, fried egg lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today I am thrilled to be joined by the great Jaime Diaz. One of the great golf writers and sports writers of our time. Always a pleasure to be joined by Jaime to break down a big event like the 2026 U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills. This will be the fifth time that Shinnecock has hosted the U.S. Open in the modern era. The sixth time overall. In recent U.S.
Opens, since I've been alive, so the last 40 years, this is 40 years after Ray Floyd in 1986 won at one under a sensational tournament. So many people in the mix. 95, you saw Corey Pavin win at Shinnecock Hills at even par. 2004, Ratif Goosen won at four under in kind of a thrilling way. Victory there, great tournament.
And then, of course, most recently, 2018, Brooks Koepka survived a crazy day, a crazy week, shot one over par. So this has been a test that it's been able to stand up to the modern game. I think that's a huge storyline for the week, is can it stand up to the modern game and what type of setup does...
uh, the USGA deploy as Shinnecock can get a bit crispy, um, and can be a little bit unpredictable. We have really dove into the golf course on a lot of channels. Uh, check out our website, the fried egg.com. We already have a ton of articles up about Shinnecock Hills. Uh, also check out our YouTube page. We have our, uh, all grasses, local series on the turf operation.
We have the architecture of Shinnecock Hills. We are, Joined by the great Wayne Morrison, a William Flynn historian, as well as Bill core and Garrett and I break down the golf course on, on the golf, on the golf course. That's a great video. The architecture of Shinnecock Hills. And also we have Roy McIlroy talking about Shinnecock Hills and,
I think what really makes it a tough test for players like of his ilk. Um, so check out our website, check out, uh, the YouTube page for a ton of preview content. Um, Before we get to Jaime Diaz, let's talk about our partners here. Max Fly has been a leader in golf equipment for over 100 years. In 1986, Max Fly was killing it. That might have been the HT era of Max Fly ball.
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Chapter 2: How do the modern players' chances compare at Shinnecock Hills?
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All right, let's get to Jaime Diaz. All right. I am joined by the great Jaime Diaz, longtime writer at SI, Golf Channel contributor, now writer at large at Golf Digest. Jaime has seen many of the greatest golf championships. It's always a pleasure to be joined by him. Jaime, what do you think about Shinnecock Hills? Obviously, in your illustrious career, you've covered it many times.
What is your favorite tournament that they've had at Shinnecock?
Well, it might be a little bit romanticism on my part, but the first one was 86. And I'd just come off the first Masters I'd been to at 86. And, you know, arguably that was the best Masters. And arguably 86 was the best Open, at least for me, that I've seen for many reasons. And one of them was Shinnecock itself. You know, there was a lot of skepticism going into that tournament about the site.
It was really sort of this kind of fever dream by Frank Hannigan, who ran the USGA in the 80s and was a great thinker of the game. He did a lot for golf architecture as far as bringing awareness about the great architects. He did the first really long and very informative and thought-provoking feature on an architect. It was on A.W. Tillinghast. And nobody knew who Tillinghast was.
I shouldn't say nobody. I mean, a lot of historians did, but the general public did not even really know. put architects first when they thought of the golf courses. They just thought of the tournaments that had been held there. Uh, but it just opened up the world for people learning about Ross and McKenzie and everybody else, the golden age. Nobody talked about the golden age.
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Chapter 3: What unique challenges does Shinnecock Hills present to golfers?
Open. And Andy North grinded it out. And Seve, that was his best U.S. Open ever, I believe.
With 86, I mean, I guess I think about the way I cover golf now as I go out and watch. But in that U.S. Open, similar to the Masters, I mean, it was anybody's game. You know, 10 players at one point within, you know, I think 10 players held the lead on Sunday.
I was just reading, you may have this, I always refer back to it, Sal Johnson's old print kind of comprehensive statistical summary of all the U.S. Opens up, I think, through 96. But he said at 4 o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday, nine guys were tied for the lead. And I do remember that in sitting in the lunchroom.
I was sitting with, I mean, I was total, you know, very much deferential, just kind of a rookie with Dan Jenkins, Mike Lupica, Dave Anderson. Herbert Warren Wynn, I'm just sitting at this table and, you know, kind of listening. But I'm looking at the leaderboard going, well, I'm going to go out there.
And it was hard to leave that table just because it was just so much lore being flung around and wisecracks and just really skilled, incredible, you know, golf minds. And, you know, I left, and I followed Floyd and Stewart on the way in.
What was Ray Floyd's reputation with the media?
With the media? Well, he was one of those guys that put out a very gruff exterior and was skeptical of talking to the media and would kind of repel people just with his looks.
just with his mood and his, uh, or at least his, the mood that he affected when the media came around that I saw, uh, you know, so he was a little intimidating, but if you could kind of cut through and just keep asking a decent question that, that showed that you might have an idea of what, um, you know, what, what professional golf's about, he would be very, I wouldn't say engaging, but he'd be very thoughtful and, and smart about the game.
And, you know, I ended up doing a book with, with Raymond and, the elements of scoring. It was about the short game mostly, but just in general, his course management and the way he thought of his way around a golf course and just the inside kind of mental part of the game. Of course, he had some technical stuff he did with his golf swing, but it was very much a homemade golf swing.
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Chapter 4: How do Rory McIlroy's skills align with Shinnecock's demands?
which was this glazed look he would get on Sundays when he would close out tournaments. Cause he'd won the PGA, I think by, you know, he'd led by eight or something coming down the stretch at Southern Hills and just dominated the whole tournament, um, and shot record score. So when he got it going, you know, he would just get in this wonderful zone.
And she said, you know, I've seen him, I've seen him win without the look, uh, or I've seen him, how did she put it? Um, I've seen him win occasionally without the look, but I've never seen him lose with the look. And he had the look at Shinnecock and it was, you know, she was, she was playing with, with, with Payne Stewart.
And later when Payne finally won some opens and won his majors, he said, you know, I kind of got an education from Raymond Floyd. He just had this aura that, you know, I, I kind of shrunk in its presence because it was really a powerful mental focus that just kind of, um, emanated out of him. And, and, uh, The players felt it. So, you know, that that's what Raymond, I think, had.
And he had all kinds of shots. Incredible wedge player, incredible chipper of the ball and couldn't move the ball around. He was a good ball striker when he when he got it going. He was not always a great ball striker. That was his challenge was finding, you know, the right swing thought, let's say, on Tuesday afternoon or something.
Yeah, he got it really going watching that. You know, you're describing him, his relation with the press, you know, kind of his, I would say, aura. You know, I don't want to use PJ's generation's terms here. That's all right.
That was before that. They don't own that one.
But he kind of reminds me a little bit like the way he's been described in articles I've read by you here of Brooks Koepka.
I was just going to say Brooks. Brooks could get in the zone, especially at majors, obviously. And, you know, Raymond early in his career could be very distracted. You know, he hung around with some guys, Al Besselink and Doug Sanders and Bob Rosberg. And Rossi in particular loved to play the horses. And he was sort of known for like, if he was four over on, you know,
Friday morning after seven holes, he'd walk off and he'd go to the track. And sometimes he'd take Raymond with him. And, and Raymond, when you, he was, you know, he didn't really know it. He lived in San Francisco in those days, by the way, you know, and he owned a club, right. He owned part of a strip club, a topless club in, uh, on Broadway there.
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Chapter 5: What insights does Jaime Diaz share about Brooks Koepka's performance?
I don't think distance is a prerequisite at Shinnecock. And when I look at what's the big difference between Brooks Koepka today and... you know, seven years ago or eight years ago when they played at Shinnecock is he's not overwhelmingly powerful anymore because of the way the tour has just gotten faster.
And he's, you know, you lose a superpower, you aren't going to be, you know, the same dominant force that he was. And I think the way he... It will always go under the radar and under-talked about the way he understood how to attack a golf course and understand how to attack a golf course. He talked after O'Kill about this at the US Open LA, how he...
He really, like, if you want to understand a golf course, you stand on the back of a green and you look back and I know where I want to be approaching the green from for different pins. And he really, you know, I think, like, because of his persona and his personality, he will never get the credit for the golf brain that he has. You know, one thing I... Go ahead. Excuse me.
And Shinnecock was that moment, you know, of like, you know, this is this is a place that is the peak place to win a U.S. Open.
Well, I think one thing that validated him in my mind, besides the wins and the way he played, that was just, you know, very, very much apparent just visually was helping Doak at Memorial Park. And Doak, you know, he's not always the easiest collaborator by his own admission. I don't mean personality-wise. I mean, he just has his ideas, and they're great ones usually.
But he said Brooks really gave him a nice perspective about what tour players, you know, find difficult in green surrounds. And that golf course has very few bunkers, and it's amazing how well that golf course as a municipal or public course holds up. And it's because of the way that the greens challenge, especially, you know, shots around the green. And so, you know, Brooks added that to it.
And I think of that shot, the up and down at 11. 11 is probably the most diabolical par three at Shinnecock and maybe anywhere. I know he actually chipped it in the bunker from over the green and then he got up and down and he made about a 15 footer. So it wasn't stellar shots. short game play, but it was, it was that toughness and rising to the moment and not making the big mistake.
And he, he made bogey there. And I think DJ three putted and made bogey and that looked like a big flip and ended up being nothing. And he, and he may have won the open on that hole. But anyway, the big thing about Brooks is he is a very smart course manager and he's pretty well-rounded. I'm talking about now Pete Brooks. He had a good short game. He was a good putter.
He was a good, he was a good iron player. I think actually The driver, I mean, because he hit kind of a cut. And his swing is not optimal as far as the angle of attack for distance. It's kind of steep. And he spun it a lot. But he was, you know, he got it in the fairway. And he was just such a brute that he could get it out there pretty far. But it's not a swing for maximized distance.
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Chapter 6: What strategies are suggested for Scottie Scheffler's approach at the U.S. Open?
But what's tricky about Shincock is doing it multiple days in a row.
Well, yeah, I mean, it, it, it, it's unrelenting in that regard. I mean, you, you have to hit it solid and really conceive your iron shots correctly to hold the greens. The targets are so small on the greens themselves. To me, it's a second shot golf course. And you know, It's interesting. They've allowed the fairways to be wider this year. John Bodenhammer was just talking about that.
And, you know, I think they want they want to see the artistry from the fairway with the irons and let that be the determiner of who's the best player. And I think that's actually the most beautiful kind of golf because then you see. You know, it's a physical challenge.
Great athletic, I think, act to hit a really solid compressed iron shot that's well shaped and, you know, is the right trajectory and all those things that go into a really great iron shot into a great green complex. And see that over and over. Somebody do that. I think that's what the most memorable rounds are about that I've seen anyway. And nobody does that right now better than Scheffler.
But, you know, Jack, Jack didn't go pin hunting a lot, but man, he hit a million greens and he always hit the right shot. So, you know, he, I remember talking, Arnold Palmer once saying that the best part of Jack's games is middle iron game. He goes, he's just relentless with that. It doesn't miss greens, hits the right shot, can hold the greens when they get really, really firm in majors.
And, and that's what Chinnock is going to demand. You cannot, You can't be, you know, kind of slapping iron shots around. And we do see that with some players, you know, when the greens are a little softer, they can contend. Shinnecock, and the Open in general is about that, but Shinnecock especially, will separate those guys out.
You've got to be a really, you know, that flusher that you, you know, the sound, all that stuff that's really beautiful about the game, especially on the
practice tee when you when you see guys just you know just hitting these artistic beautiful solid iron shots that's what Shinnecock asked for so you've seen a lot of uh a lot of the great championship golf courses you've attended so many it covered so many of the U.S. Opens uh do you believe Shinnecock where do you think it stacks up in in the the great U.S. Open venues
Well, to me, it's the best one. And, you know, I've been hearing that. You know, Bodenham was talking about yesterday. You know, they've been surveying the players the last five, six years about, you know, what they like to see at the U.S. Open and what's important about the U.S. Open. And one of the big reactions is it matters where you win.
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Chapter 7: How do new players like Ludvig Åberg fit into the U.S. Open landscape?
But I think an interesting aspect is like, what can you learn from Shinnecock in terms of the spotter technology? Frankly, I think the rollback's kind of a mess right now. Well, obviously, yeah. But the... what can we learn about what makes players uncomfortable? Because Shinnecock's one of the places that makes the modern golfer uncomfortable.
And sadly, from what I can tell, the vast majority of what Shinnecock does to players is just sheer natural advantages to other golf courses, which is the ever-present wind, The elevation changes and the firm turf that is a byproduct of having sandy soil. Like those three things together. So wind, elevation, and firm turf, plus their repelling edges, the greens that repel away.
The ball, if you miss your target or you miss strike your shot. So the best way to describe this is like when the greens are pretty soft, If I catch the ball a fraction on the toe, and say I'm playing to hit a two-yard fade into a green, that I know it's going to stop. If I hit catch it fraction on the toe and it turns over a yard or two at most golf courses, that's not a big deal.
You know, at Shinnecock Hills, that could lead to your ball just rolling 30 yards away because of the firmness of the turf. And if you're not hitting the shape plus, you know, like what the way the draw could be accentuated with the wind or way of fade could be accentuated with the wind, all these things.
that the, the margin for error at Shinnecock Hills is shrunk more so than any other American course. And I would say more so than any other course, maybe in the world.
Wow. Yeah. Well, you could make, I think you made a good argument and that's very possibly true that it is the greatest. I think it's very much in the top three or four of the greatest tests for championship golf. Now, if you get it that way for everyday play or, even every week play on PGA Tour, it might be a little much. I mean, it's a fine line. You can go over the line.
They've gone over the line at Shinnecock, at least by their own admission. They're sort of backing off on going to the edge so much in terms of, I don't know about the whole positions, but certainly the firmness and the fairway width and the rough. They want Shinnecock to be quote-unquote Shinnecock. But it's still championship golf, and you've got to ratchet it up.
I think you're absolutely right. It's the natural environment at Shinnecock that's the greatest challenge. But then when you start tweaking the setup, you know, you can make it even better as far as really, really testing these guys in a way that brings out inspired championship play. But you can also go over the line and make it, you know, sort of random and you don't want to do that either.
So I think the setup now. at all these majors, it's one of the greatest challenges in the game to get it right. For example, I thought at Aronamink, I thought they actually went too far. And it wasn't terrible. It was interesting. But it got to the point where nobody could really hit it close because of the hole positions and because of the firmness.
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Chapter 8: What are the final predictions for the U.S. Open winner?
which I'm not saying it was terrible, but it was over the edge, I thought. So that is a challenge that that's why I favor a rollback. That would open up the parameters for the setup guys.
Yeah, you know, I think they, you know, last year even was a, you know, an interesting setup. Like the rough at Oakmont, you know, a foot off the fairway. And this happened at Ironman too.
I think this is something that my colleague Joseph LaMagna hits on all the time is the idea of like where narrow misses are penalized more than wide miss because you hit it into the gallery, you get into the trample down rough and I don't know what the answer to that is on a golf course like Aronamink.
Let me interject. Graduated Rough has been villainized. I don't get why. I think it's a very honest try to be equitable. And I think it works in general. Yeah. Marco Miro was a great player. He won two majors, but he didn't have a great U S open, right? He goes, it would just drive me nuts to, to cause it before they had intermediate rough, it would just be high rough right off the edge almost.
And, you know, I, I'd missed a fair by a yard. I might as well miss it by 20 yards. I was dead. Uh, so that was part of the challenge of the U S opening, why you had to be so straight. Uh, it was more of a premium on driving accuracy in the past than there is now even. Uh, so, uh, it's still kind of a distortion, I think of the overall test. That's all.
Yeah. You know, when I, uh, when I, I think that, One of the things that Shinnecock can do is it does provide a little bit more of equitable. I think there's enough space where the crowd, the fans aren't like on top of the golf as much. And one of the things it has is it has the wider fairways. Then there's like a little bit of rough, which sounds like it's going to be pretty tough.
Mm hmm.
Um, it's, uh, it's unpredictable. And obviously the name of the game at Shinnecock because of the greens and the firmness and the repelling nature of them and the severity of them, the name of the game is, is, is having control of your golf ball. And that's, you have to play from the fairway to do that. Uh, and then they have the fescue.
So it's like, you kind of get a natural graduated rough here.
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