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Chapter 1: Who are the greatest male athletes discussed in this episode?
Listener. Oh, can you believe it? It's how we achieve the big five. The big, big five.
Howie Games, Big Five. Mark Howard with you alongside my sporting hero, a man that kicked 1,254 goals and won four premierships with the Hawthorne Football Club. Chiefy boy, how's your week? How are you, great man?
Very good, very good. Tired after all the research I've done. This is hard. This is hard, Howie.
I got a lot of feedback on the movies. I got a lot of feedback on the movies. And I've got to say, people need to go back and listen to it, but I didn't get a lot of love for putting Point Break in there.
I think a lot of people would... I got the wrong... Well, the Kevin Costner baseball movie that I love, most other people would go a different path. Yes. But the Rocky that you chose, a lot of people in a different path.
I got some strong feedback on that. I tell you, he's like iron. Right, today on The Big Five, we are doing male sporting goats. So we are hoping this series goes for a long time with all your support. We've got all sorts of categories and female sporting goats is coming up. But today we are doing male sporting goats.
Wow.
I found this pretty hard. Yeah, well, how do you compare sports?
How do you work which sort of genre of sport you're going to go into?
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Chapter 2: What criteria do they use to define a sporting GOAT?
And you're influenced by what sport you love. Correct. So I love Formula One. And I spent statistically 45 minutes going through the statistics of whether the seven-time Formula One world champion.
So I thought you'd have Lewis Hamilton straight in.
Well, I couldn't decide between Schumacher with his seven world titles and Hamilton with his seven world titles. And after a lot of research, I went with Hamilton, but then I couldn't put him in the top five. So I did all this wasted work.
But see, that in itself, if there's two on level pegging, two-tie, all-tie, can't put them in.
Have you got a tennis player in? I have. Okay. See, this is an interesting discussion because I haven't gone a tennis player. Right. And we'll get to it. But the Federer. Can we start? Okay. Let's start. Righto. Let's start. Okay. Oh, so I know who you're going with number five now. Number five. You're going to joke a bit.
Yes, you've pre-empted the conversation. So I am a lifelong Roger Federer fan. You love Roger. I love Fed. I love Fed. And I used to hate Nadal because he was the one that could beat Fed, but then I grew to love Nadal.
But the one that is superior to all of them, when you look at the record that he has set, he now holds a record 24 Grand Slam titles, 428 weeks at number one, an Olympic gold medal, it's Novak Djokovic. And he's the least popular of them. He's desperate to be loved by people, but he never won them over. People don't warm to him. Yeah, that's true. But he's the best there is.
And he's 39 and he's still bloody going. Why? I want to tell you a couple of things about it. Go on. Because Fed was my hero, right? Yep. So Nadal ended up on 22 Grand Slams, Federer on 20. In 2011, and this is why I had to put Djokovic in, he went 10-1 against Federer and Nadal. Head to head. In 2015, he made 15 consecutive finals, winning 10 of them. Wow. Ah!
I mean, they are – it's just ludicrous. And the one that broke my heart, this is the moment that I will – I like that you put him in. You hated it. I will never forgive him for this. 2019 Wimbledon final. He's against Fed. My hero, Roger Federer. It's gone five sets. Federer's up 8-7 serving for the match. 40-15. It's over.
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Chapter 3: How does Michael Jordan's impact on basketball compare to others?
No. No. No. Fed strolls in on a couple of crap approach shots. Djokovic goes pass, pass, breaks, ends up. Now, there's a new rule this year that when you get to 12 yards, it goes to a tiebreaker. Yes. And then he beats Fed in the tiebreaker, wins it 13-12. Oh, I wanted to kill him. And it's a match. Djokovic. He is the greatest tennis player of all time.
So did you think over, if you got him in a room a hundred times and you took him on surfaces and days... And see, there's the thing, there's the thing, because Nadal won a hundred French Opens. What did he win?
He won like 12 or 13, didn't he? Djokovic is the only one that won on each surface three plus times. So you think he is... He's the best tennis player. The numbers tell you he is. The numbers tell you he is. And the fact that he did it in the era against Nadal and Federer. Yes, they were there before him, but he's still going.
Well, it's an interesting point, isn't it? Because Federer is the most aesthetically pleasing, which is why you would love him. Correct. Like that backhand. Beautiful to watch. And the way he'd walk out in Wimbledon in the old Y. Yes, yeah, correct.
So he's your archetypical, if you haven't seen a tennis match before and you're watching Federer, you're like, this is the way tennis should be played. But he's not in your top where you... I wanted to, but... So write it down. Write it down. I like that I was able to pick as immediate as we got to that. So I didn't put any tennis players in because I couldn't really split them.
So in my mind, if you weren't the GOAT of your sport, how could you be a GOAT full stop? So I didn't put any tennis players in. Is it rude that I'm not even bothering with his first name? No, no, no. Because I want to roger there. No, no, that's okay. Have you put... That hurt. Have you put... I'll hold that one off. Okay. I'm concerned about my number five. As you should be.
What sport are you going into, Howie? Surfing. Oh, Kelly Slater. Kelly Slater.
And just like that, the greatest of all time is back on top. Kelly Slater. A huge victory. I wanted to put him in, but I couldn't.
So my great concern was, what, like 1% of the world's population surf? So can you be a top five goat if you're from what is ostensibly, not in my world, but in the real world, it's a niche sport. But you considered it.
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Chapter 4: What makes Usain Bolt stand out as a sprinter?
So Kelly Slater, an 11-time world surf champion, he won a few, won quite a few, then he went away. He won events. This is the one that got me, Chief. So if you're in the car and you're ripping your hair out saying, how can you put Kelly Slater in? He won events across four decades.
Eight times, four decades, 1992, 2022, my man. You did it. This is sport history. Have a nice day, man.
So that's a showstopper for me. Yep. And then when you compare him to others in the field, so the most events won, Curran is second with 33, Slater won 56 events, but it's the world titles. For me. So he has 11. Second is the man from Newcastle, Mark Richards, with four. So he's nearly three times higher performance than anyone else. I get it. No, I get it. He was on my short list.
And if you're not convinced about Kelly Slater, I'll just mention one name to you. Jimmy Slade. Does that mean anything to you? No. That was Kelly Slater, a character in Baywatch alongside Pamela Anderson. Now, if that doesn't get you in your top five goats, do you used to watch Baywatch?
A little bit, a little bit. Just for the visual aspect. I'm not going to say it was the most hard-hitting drama going around.
So later on in the series, The Big Five, we are doing old-school TV shows.
Oh, yeah, that's where I come to my feet.
Yes. Okay, so you've gone yay to Novak Djokovic, and I'm going Manish Kelly-Slater. So we get to number four. Number four. Touchdowns four.
Number four. Now, this is probably my outlier because it's not – A sport I particularly love or watch a heap of. Okay. But I love the story. Right. I love what he's been able to do. Give me a hint. If I said, who's the great one? Muhammad Ali. No. Okay. This man was nicknamed the great one. A little Canadian by the name of- Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky.
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Chapter 5: Why is Muhammad Ali considered a GOAT in boxing?
You get more points for a goal as opposed to just an assist? No, you get a point for it. Okay. But he also holds the record for assists on its own. His record of assists is... is bigger than anybody else's number of points, which combines both assists and goals. Just his assists? Just his assists. Okay. This is the man we're talking about.
So he gets drafted as a 17-year-old, and his first year is in the World Hockey Association, which is a different league to the NHL. So he's there for one year, and the WHA merges with the NHL. So he comes into the NHL. In his first eight years in the NHL... He wins the MVP. The first eight years from 18, for eight years he wins the NHL League MVP. Every year? Every year. Eight years straight?
He wins it nine overall, but he wins it his first eight years in there. Wow. Ridiculous. He was small. He was fast. He had stamina. And they were always trying to clean him up, and he would dodge and evade the body checks. So what was it about him? Was he quick on the ice? He was quick. He was incredibly skilled. He had more stamina than anyone else on the ice. And you know what I love about it?
Yeah. He used to often set up. Behind the opposition's goal. So much, so regularly that they called it Gretzky's office. That's what it was known as. Gretzky's office. Behind the opposition's goal.
Between the wall and the goal.
Three goals for the Rangers in this game. All three set up by Gretzky from behind the net.
So why would he sit up there? Well, often the ball would get down there and he'd use... The puck. Sorry, the puck. I don't know why I said the ball.
We don't know much about ice hockey.
We know it's a puck. No. But... I just love everything you hear about him elevated him above everybody else.
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Chapter 6: What achievements put Wayne Gretzky at the top of hockey discussions?
He was the director of it when Canada did win it. Okay. So he led them to a title, but not when he played.
Any idea of what type of bank he would make? MJ, can we get a sort of an idea of career earnings? Because Djokovic would have massive career earnings.
He changed the way contracting was done.
Okay. Tell me about that.
Because he had a deal with the owner first up. Was it the Edmonton Oil? I can't remember which team it was. And the league actually had to intervene and said, no, we need a standard club contract because you've got an individual contract with the owner who was paying him that they didn't like. It was sort of undermining the way contracts were done in the sport.
So it was actually the Gretzky rule that changed it.
Well, put him up on your board. MJ in the tally room, have you got a sort of career earnings for Wayne Gretzky?
Probably. Approximately 46 million US during the 20 seasons. Okay. And then about another 50. So 96 million all up once you have endorsements added in.
Okay.
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Chapter 7: How does Roger Federer’s career influence his GOAT status?
Now, it's interesting you say that. I was this close to putting him in. Right. And why did you not? Why did I not? So you considered him and rejected him. I did. It wasn't a matter of rejection. Cricket's a different sport to the other ones that have world titles, gold medals, you know what I mean, all those sorts of things. It is.
But I get where you're coming from because I've actually got to do – Well, no, I can't say that because that's going to compromise something down the track.
Okay. We don't want to unveil it.
Yeah.
Is this something that was due to the Big Five or is this a more... Yes, it's something due to the Big Five.
Don't give it away. I don't want to go down that track. Well, I'll give you some... No, look, you're right. His average is so far above. Now, some of the arguments, and you all know these, is when he started... Yes. You weren't playing many teams. No.
It was really England, Australia. So on that, so the negatives against Bradman, how many tests playing countries do you reckon he played in? So how many countries did he play a test match in?
Three.
Two. So he only played in Australia and England. So he played the away Ashes and then he played whoever was touring in Australia. So in his 52 test matches, he only played in two different countries. However, Chief, I'll get to the numbers. I'll give you a back one on that one. So Bradman famously averaged 99.94.
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Chapter 8: What are the audience's opinions on the greatest male athletes?
So no covers on the pitches, so the ball did more. And he never batted in a helmet. Now, I think that... That's a pretty significant factor. When you're facing the likes of Larwood and these guys famously, no helmet, very limited protection. You see the old gloves that are in the bottom of the kit with the spiky green gloves. That's cheap.
When you forgot your gloves and you had to pull out the under-14 kit and they had the spiky green gloves, that's what he was operating in.
How did we ever use team boxes? I don't know. But we all did. I don't get that. You just grab one out of the kit and go, yeah, I'll use that. I don't know. Yeah. I guess the only thing was there's a limited field that he played against. Yes, yes. And just to measure that against the other sports is very difficult that don't have world titles and medals and the like.
I purely came back to statistics. I purely came back to statistics on that one. So time for number three.
One, two, three. Number three. So now we go into the Olympic realm.
Okay, give me a little guessing game here.
Give me something I can try and guess who we're going with. greatest Olympian ever. Michael Phelps. Yeah. So we're talking about a man that's won 28 Olympic medals, 23 of them are gold, Howie. Yes. 23. Yep. So let me just give you a snapshot. He went to five Olympic Games, didn't win a medal at his first Olympic Games.
At the next four consecutive Olympic Games, he was the most successful athlete at each Games. Four in a row, the most successful athlete... Across any sport. ..at all the Olympic Games, those four in a row. He set the record of eight gold medals at Beijing in 2008. Beat Mark Spitz. So, freestyle... Butterfly, untouchable. Medley's untouchable. He also won a silver in backstroke.
Was there anything the guy couldn't do? And they're numbers that just stood out too much to me. The man has finished the greatest Olympian. More gold medals than any other Olympian.
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