The Kyle Thiermann Show

#203 Understanding California's Forests - Sharon Duggan

06 Mar 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Sharon Duggan, an environmentalist lawyer, with an emphasis on forestry regulation has successfully taken on both private and public entities, includi...

#202 In Defense of The NRA - James Elledge

02 Mar 2020

Contributed by Lukas

James Eledge is a hunters safety educator and NRA member.   If you have questions or comments about this episode, this is the place to holler.    M...

#201 How To Kayak The California Coast - Stephen Page

21 Feb 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Raised in San Francisco, Stephen Page is a surfer, diver, builder, and adventurer who recently completed a solo 840-mile kayak trip of the California...

#200 Sex, Society, & Millennial Maturation - Anya Kaats

15 Feb 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Anya Kaats is a writer and podcaster determined to redefine the way we think about and construct the world around us. She hosts two podcasts, A Millen...

#199 The Rise of Conspiracy Theories - Abby Martin

08 Feb 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Abby Martin is an American journalist and presenter of The Empire Files, an investigative news program on the satellite network teleSUR and YouTube. S...

#1 Check With Kyle - Travel Guide To Morocco

31 Jan 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Ever wanted to know the best spots to surf in Morocco? How about useful words or the correct way to eat bread in a tagine? In this special episode of ...

#198 Badass Moroccan Historian - Ahmed Jadli

22 Jan 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Ahmed Jadli is a Moroccan historian who lives in the historic town of Essouiara, Morocco.  Here’s Ahmed’s email: [email protected]   Sign up for...

#197 Moroccan Big Wave Surfer - Othman "Hotman" Chufani

16 Jan 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Hotman is a professional surfer from Morocco who travels to Mavericks when it gets XXL.    Follow Hotman on Instagram   Listen to Bull Market on S...

#196 Surfing & Activism in Morocco - Saad Abid

03 Jan 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Saad Abid is a professional surfer and environmentalist from Morocco. His organization, Bahri, has galvanized thousands of Moroccans to participate in...

#195 Elk Hunting & Mexican Keto Cooking - Josh Hall & Tori Borelli

31 Dec 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Tori Borelli is a nutritionist and author of the Mexican keto cookbook. Josh Hall is a professional surfboard shaper from San Diego, CA.   Follow Jos...

#194 Optimized Buds - Lindsey Locke & Brenden Ruh

20 Dec 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Brenden Ruh is the founder of Santa Cruz Medicinals and is the fine gentleman who told me to start this podcast. Lindsey Locke has worked in the healt...

#193 Align Podcast - Aaron Alexander

13 Dec 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Aaron Alexander has over 14 years of experience as a manual therapist and movement coach working with Hollywood celebrities, professional athletes, an...

#192 Co-Founder of Guayakí - David Karr

04 Dec 2019

Contributed by Lukas

David Karr is the Co-Founder of Guayakí Yerba Mate.    Follow Guayakí on Instagram   Listen to Light The Band   Sign up for the weekly email   ...

#191 Surf/Skate Santa Cruz - Terry Campion

25 Nov 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Terry Campion is the host of the Off The Lip Radio Show and owner of the Santa Cruz Boardroom.   Follow Santa Cruz Boardroom on Instagram   Sign up ...

#190 Understanding The U.S. Criminal Justice System - Jody Armour

25 Nov 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Jody David Armour is the Roy P. Crocker Professor of Law at the University of Southern California and author of Negrophobia and Reasonable Racism: The...

#189 Navy SEAL/Journalist - Kaj Larsen

12 Nov 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Kaj Larsen is an American journalist, correspondent, and producer who has worked for Vice News, CNN, NowThis News and Current TV.    Follow Kaj on ...

#188 Local Politics - Manu Koenig

05 Nov 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Manu Koenig is running for 1st district Santa Cruz County Supervisor. In this conversation we talk about the homeless crisis, affordable housing, and ...

#187 "Lost in the Sierras with my 13-year-old son" - Randy & Jasper Garrett

31 Oct 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Randy Garrett is a spearfisherman, surfer, mushroom hunter, and math teacher. During this conversation Randy and his son, Jasper, tell the story of ge...

#186 From Psychedelics To Cell-Based Meats - Kyle Kingsbury

18 Oct 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Kyle Kingsbury is a retired American professional mixed martial artist. A professional competitor from 2006-2014, Kingsbury also formerly competed for...

#185 Pearl Farming in Tahiti - Josh Humbert

11 Oct 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Josh Humbert arrived in French Polynesia at age two and is thus deeply connected to Tahitian culture. His lifelong love of the ocean has led him to wo...

#184 Sex Ed with Simon Rex & Amy Baldwin

28 Sep 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Simon Rex also known as Dirt Nasty, is an American entertainer. Rising to fame as an MTV VJ, Rex later became an actor known for What I Like About You...

#183 Addiction Counselor & Crossfit Athlete - Lindsey Locke

16 Sep 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Lindsey Locke has worked in the health and fitness industry for the better part of the last decade. With an undergraduate degree from UC Santa Cruz in...

#182 Surf Trip Through Africa - Gouchos Del Mar

07 Sep 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Julián and Joaquín Azulay (Gauchos del Mar) are two argentine brothers who made a trip through the American Continent on a truck starting from Los A...

#181 Pro Football's Most Revolutionary Trainer - Tareq Azim

31 Aug 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Tareq Azim is a 6x Mixed Martial Arts World Champion Head Coach, Head of off-season Development of NFL,UFC, RWL and MLB standouts, competitive product...

#180 Gift Economy & Ecological Regeneration - Charles Eisenstein

24 Aug 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Charles Eisenstein is a public speaker, gift economy advocate, and the author of several books including The Ascent of Humanity, Sacred Economics, The...

#179 WSL Pure - Reece Pacheco

20 Aug 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Reece Pacheco is Executive Director of WSL Pure, the sustainability and ocean conservation arm of World Surf League.    Follow Reece on Instagram  ...

#178 Selling Kanye Sneakers & Life on Tour - Jordy Smith

15 Aug 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Jordy Smith is a professional surfer from South Africa. He is currently ranked #6 on the World Surf League.    Follow Jordy in Instagram   Listen t...

#177 Money & Politics - Attorney Jason Harrow

09 Aug 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Jason Harrow is Chief Council at Equal Citizens and host of the Versus Trump podcast. Harrow is a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard Law School, wher...

#176 The Ido Portal Method - Leela Kalow & Dean Yerushalmy

03 Aug 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Dean Yerushalmy and Leela Kalow are the only two people in Santa Cruz, California teaching the Ido Portal Method under his direct guidance in his Ment...

#175 Albee Layer (Pro Surfer ) & Nora Vasconcellos (Pro Skater)

24 Jul 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Albee Layer is a professional surfer from Maui, Hawaii. Nora Vasconcellos is a professional skateboarder from Oceanside, California. She was Adidas' f...

#174 Nat Geo Photographer & Cave Diver - Ben Horton

18 Jul 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Ben Horton has based his career on being able to go places that other people either cannot, or don’t want to go. From thousands of feet underwater t...

#173 The Future of Eating Meat - Elliot Swartz Ph.D

11 Jul 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Elliot is a senior scientist at The Good Food Institute. He holds a bachelor's degree in behavioral neuroscience from Lehigh University and a Ph.D. i...

#172 Pro Skateboarder - Andy Macdonald

06 Jul 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Andy Macdonald (@AndyMac720) has been crowned as skateboarding’s World Champion for nine years in the World Cup Skateboarding Series. He has compete...

#171 Roadtrip through Mexico w/ Kyle Buthman & Cliff Kapono

27 Jun 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Kyle Buthman is an Award Winning filmmaker from Santa Cruz, CA. As a lifelong surfer, his experience growing up in and around the water has greatly in...

#170 Inside MUD\WTR - Co-Founders, Shane Heath & Paul DeJoe

17 Jun 2019

Contributed by Lukas

MUD\WTR is an amalgam of organic, earth-grown ingredients lauded by cultures old and young around the world for their health and performance benefits....

#169 Politics and Comedy - The Young Turks, Malcolm Fleschner

11 Jun 2019

Contributed by Lukas

The Young Turks (TYT) is the largest online news show in the world. It serves as the flagship program of the TYT Network, a multi-channel network of a...

#168 Mickey Avalon

02 Jun 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Mickey Avalon is an American rapper from Hollywood, California. His debut self-titled solo album was released on Interscope/Shoot to Kill Records in a...

#167 Fish Slayer - Alan Lovewell

28 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Alan Lovewell is the founder of Real Good Fish. Real Good Fish is a community of fishermen that use sustainable catch methods and do weekly deliveries...

#166 Pro Surfer - Nat Young

24 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Nat Young was world-ranked #8 and ASP Rookie of the Year in 2013. Young was born (1991) and raised on the Westside of Santa Cruz, and started riding w...

#165 Comedian - Moshe Kasher

16 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Moshe Kasher. Comedian. Child Genius. Jew. Jew Comedian. OBGYN. Pleasure center. Good tipper. Guiding light. Beefcake. Featured on: NBC, E!’s Chelse...

#164 Transformational Breathing - Nicole Rager

13 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Nicole is a certified Transformational Breath® facilitator. Transformational Breath® is a style of connected breathing that incorporates body mappin...

#163 Dirt & Doctor - Simon Rex & Chris Ryan

10 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Simon Rex also known as Dirt Nasty, is an American entertainer. Rising to fame as an MTV VJ, Rex later became an actor known for What I Like About You...

#162 Ventana Surfboards - Martijn Stiphout & David Dennis

04 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

From Ventana: We incorporate historic and exotic reclaimed woods from our upcycle partners, such as guitar offcuts, boat hulls, floor boards, even wo...

#161 The Untold Story of Duke - Steve Hawk

01 May 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Steve Hawk (@stevehawk6211) was the Editor of Surfer magazine from 1990 to 1998, and a Contributing Editor since 2004. Steve moved on to become the ed...

#160 - My Summer Travel Kit

25 Apr 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Check all of the products here: https://www.kyle.surf/podcast/2019/4/25/160-my-summer-travel-kit   Music: https://getawaydogsmusic.com/   Buy me a...

#159 Renegade Psychiatrist - Kelly Brogan & Sayer Ji

23 Apr 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Kelly Brogan, M.D. is a holistic women’s health psychiatrist, author of the NY Times Bestselling book, A Mind of Your Own She completed her psychia...

#158 Ben Greenfield, Mark Healey, & Chris Ryan

03 Apr 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Ben Greenfield is a Coach, Author, Speaker, Ironman Triathlete, and host of the podcast Ben Greenfield Fitness. Mark Healey is a professional big wave...

#157 From MDMA To Prison Reform - Peter Attia

29 Mar 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Peter is the founder of Attia Medical, PC, a medical practice with offices in San Diego and New York City, focusing on the applied science of longevi...

#156 Chris Ryan Ph.D - The Motherfucker Awards

19 Mar 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Follow Chris on Instagram Buy me a coffee on Patreon Kyle's Instagram kyle.surf Contact: [email protected] Mud Water   SC Medicinals Use the code KYLE1...

#155 Edible Kelp - Ian O'Hollaren & Tyler Fox

14 Mar 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Ian O'Hollaren is the founder of Seaquoia Wild Seaweeds. Tyler Fox is a professional surfer and founder of Santa Cruz Waves Magazine.    Follow Ian ...

#154 Sex Educator - Amy Baldwin

09 Mar 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Amy Baldwin is a Somatic Sex and Relationship Coach (trained in the Somatica® Method), Certified Sex Educator, sales trainer and educator for Uberlub...

#153 How To Save A Wave - Nik Strong-Cvetich

06 Mar 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Nik Strong-Cvetich is the Director of Save The Waves, global nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting coastal resources through a unique combin...

#152 Shane Dorian & Mark Healey

26 Feb 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Shane Dorian and Mark Healey are professional big wave surfers from Hawaii. This podcast was recorded around a campfire while on a hunting trip.   Ep...

#150 One Arm, Zero Fucks - Jeff Denholm

15 Feb 2019

Contributed by Lukas

In 1993, Jeff Denholm was working as a fisherman when he lost his right arm to a trawler’s driveshaft off the coast of Alaska. After surviving the 2...

#149 On A Maui Deer Hunt with Jake Muise

09 Feb 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Jake Muise is a professional hunter and the Co-Founder of Maui Nui Venison.    Follow Maui Nui Venison on Instagram   https://www.mauinuivenison.co...

#148 Sex, Relationships & Intimacy - Shems Heartwell

07 Feb 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Shems Heartwell is a guide and facilitator who specializes in personal and relational empowerment. His work goes to the core of what is needed for emb...

#147 Santa Cruz Medicinals Founder - Brendan Ruh

31 Jan 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Brenden Ruh is the founder of Santa Cruz Medicinals and is the dude who told me to start this podcast.   Follow SC Medicinals on Instagram Follow Ky...

#146 Chris Ryan & The Yes Men

26 Jan 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Mike Bonanno from The Yes Men raises awareness about social and political issues through comedy. To date, the duo have produced three films: The Yes ...

#145 The Blame Game - If A Tragedy Occurs In Big-Wave Surfing, Who’s At Fault?

22 Jan 2019

Contributed by Lukas

A short story.   Connect with me on Instagram Buy me a coffee on Patreon Check out my book club on kyle.surf/boxofgoodies Get a laugh at motherf...

#144 Comedian - Leo Flowers

17 Jan 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Leo Flowers is an LA based stand-up comedian and host of the podcast Before You Kill Yourself.   Follow Leo on Instagram   The Motherfucker Awards ...

#143 Rip Curl Team Manager - Matt Myers

09 Jan 2019

Contributed by Lukas

Matt Myers is a former pro surfer and current Rip Curl Team and Events Manager.    Follow Matt on Instagram    Episode #60 Cliff Koponno   Buy m...

#142 Pro Surfer - Kai Lenny (w/ Jeff Clark)

25 Dec 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Kai Lenny is a professional surfer from Hawaii. Jeff Clark discovered Mavericks.    Follow Kai Lenny on Instagram   Follow Jeff Clark on Instagram ...

#141 The Outlaw Ocean - Ian Urbina

22 Dec 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Ian Urbina is an investigative reporter based in Washington. His most recent series, The Outlaw Ocean, chronicles a diversity of crimes offshore, incl...

#140 Pro Surfer - Nic Von Rupp (w/ Seth De Roulet)

16 Dec 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Nic Von Rupp is a professional surfer from Portugal. Seth De Roulet is a professional surf photographer who lives in Santa Barbara, CA.    Follow Ni...

#139 Rolling Stone - Matt Taibbi

05 Dec 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Matt Taibbi is a writer for Rolling Stone who has reported on politics, media, finance, and sports. Taibbi has authored several books, including of In...

#138 New Ways To Address Addiction - Dr. Adi Jaffe

02 Dec 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Adi Jaffe has been approaching recovery from addiction differently since the days of his own struggles. Through his research, clinical work and hi...

#137 The Gangster Gardener - Ron Finley

28 Nov 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Ron Finley is a proponent of urban gardening and is known for giving a TED talk on gangster gardening that has been seen by over 3 million people.   ...

#136 Wildlife Toxicologist - Myra Finlekstein

25 Nov 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Myra Finkelstein’s research focuses on human impacts to wildlife with an emphasis on contaminant-induced effects.   Donate to Myra's research here...

#135 Pro Skater / Conservationist - Cory Jones

21 Nov 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Cory Jones is a pro skater and Co-Founder of One With Nature.   Follow Cory Jones on Instagram   Music: Landless, Tropics   Connect with me on Inst...

#134 Professional Longboarder - Kassia Meador

15 Nov 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Kassia Meador is a professional longboarder from Los Angeles, CA.   Follow Kassia on Instagram   Music: Great Apes   Connect with me on Instagram ...

#133 Understanding Plastic Pollution - Stiv Wilson

08 Nov 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Stiv is a waste and plastic pollution expert who frequently asked to speak on Solutions to the vexing inefficiencies in the materials economy all ove...

#132 High Hopes - Can Psychedelics Fix Our Mental Health Crisis?

30 Oct 2018

Contributed by Lukas

This is a story I wrote for Santa Cruz Waves Magazine. You can read the full story here.   Music by Daniella Smith   Connect with me on Instagram  ...

#131 Surfer/Comedian - Eddie Ifft

21 Oct 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Eddie Ifft has been called one of the most underrated comics in America by the Onion and has proudly told jokes around the world to sold-out crowds in...

#130 3x Mavericks Champion - Flea

18 Oct 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Darryl "Flea" Virostko is a professional "big wave" surfer from Santa Cruz, California. He graduated from Santa Cruz High School in 1991. He is a thre...

#129 The Inertia Editor - Zach Weisberg

14 Oct 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Zach Weisberg is the Publisher and Editor in Chief of The Inertia. A former editor at SURFER Magazine, Weisberg's work has been featured in The New Yo...

#128 Idea Sex - Hunter Maats

01 Oct 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Hunter Maats is the author of The Straight-A Conspiracy and co-host of Mixed Mental Arts with Bryan Callan.    Follow Hunter on Twitter   Connect ...

#127 Simon Rex - Dirt Nasty

27 Sep 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Simon Rex also known as Dirt Nasty, is an American entertainer. Rising to fame as an MTV VJ, Rex later became an actor known for What I Like About You...

#126 Surf Photographer - Dave "Nelly" Nelson

23 Sep 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Dave “Nelly” Nelson is a globally published veteran surf and skate photographer with countless magazine covers and spreads to his name. After spen...

#125 Porn Stars - Ceara Lynch & Alexandra Snow

17 Sep 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Ceara Lynch and Alexandra Snow are well-known adult entertainers who specialize in fetish porn.    Follow on Ceara Lynch on Instagram Follow Alexand...

#124 Route One Surfboards - Malachi

14 Sep 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Words from Malachi: Shaping is my passion and my art.  My goal is to make high-performance surfboards for the surfer that has no boundaries, and a ne...

#123 Lonely Planet Journalist - Adam Skolnick

07 Sep 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Adam Skolnick (@AdamSkolnick) has written for the New York Times, Playboy, Outside, ESPN.com, BBC.com, Salon.com, Men’s Health, Wired, and Travel + ...

#122 Stunt Woman, Model, Humanitarian - Gemita Samarra

21 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Gemita Samarra (25) is a model, stunt woman, writer, producer and founder of My Name is Human, a social enterprise working globally with displaced peo...

#121 Sex, Relationships, and Intimacy - Shems Heartwell

16 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Shems Heartwell is a guide and facilitator who specializes in personal and relational empowerment. His work goes to the core of what is needed for emb...

#120 Surfrider CEO - Chad Nelson

08 Aug 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Chad Nelson is the CEO of Surfrider.    Follow Surfrider on Instagram Listen to Weak Knees on Bandcamp  Follow Weak Knees on Instagram    Connect...

#119 When A Hippy Goes Hunting - A Short Story

28 Jul 2018

Contributed by Lukas

This is a story I wrote for The Inertia.   Music: The Getaway Dogs Connect with me on Instagram. Buy me a coffee on Patreon. Check out my favorite b...

#118 Mavericks Pioneer / Spearfisherman - Tom Powers

20 Jul 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Tom Powers is a lifelong spearfisherman and was one of the early pioneers at Mavericks. He now works as a realtor for Seabright Morgage in Santa Cruz,...

#117 The Float Tank Guru - Kevin Johnson

16 Jul 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Kevin Johnson is the founder and CEO of Zero Gravity Institute in Austin, TX. Zero Gravity is a state of the art floatation center and private resea...

#116 Thrive Documentary - Kimberly & Foster Gamble

12 Jul 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Foster Gamble and Kimberly Carter Gamble are the creators of the documentary THRIVE: What on Earth will it Take? The controversial movie was translate...

#115 Iranian Activist / Musician - Raam Seyed-Emami

05 Jul 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Raam's father was a prominent Iranian environmentalist who was arrested and interrogated for supposedly being a foreign spy. After he mysteriously die...

#114 Sex Educator - Amy Baldwin

30 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Amy Baldwin is a Somatic Sex and Relationship Coach (trained in the Somatica® Method), Certified Sex Educator, sales trainer and educator for Uberlub...

#113 Understanding Swells - Mark Sponsler

20 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Mark Sponsler's website Stormsurf.com has been the one and only surf forecast source for all variations of the Mavericks surf contest. It has also pro...

#112 Convergence - A Short Story

15 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

This is a short story I wrote for Adventure Sports Network about pro surfer, Ramon Navarro, and a land conservation success. Enjoy! Music by Daniella ...

#111 Investigative Journalist - Abby Martin

08 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Abby Martin is an American journalist and presenter of The Empire Files, an investigative news program on the satellite network teleSUR and YouTube. S...

#110 Pro Surfer - Damien Hobgood

04 Jun 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Damien Hobgood is a professional surfer from Satellite Beach, Florida.   Follow Damien on Instagram Follow me on Instagram Buy me a coffee on Patreon...

#109 Chris Ryan & Jim Fadiman

27 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Follow Chris Ryan on Instagram Follow me on Instagram Buy me a coffee on Patreon Dr. Jim Fadiman is considered America's wisest and most respected aut...

#108 Blue Mind - Dr. Wallace "J" Nichols

21 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Wallace "J" Nichols - called “Keeper of the Sea" by GQ Magazine, “a visionary" by Outside Magazine and a "water warrior" by AQUATICS Internati...

#107 Onnit - Kyle Kingsbury

20 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Kyle Kingsbury is a retired American professional mixed martial artist. A professional competitor from 2006-2014, Kingsbury also formerly competed fo...

#106 NASA Polymath Scientist - Dr. Bruce Damer

19 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Correction: It was Tim Leary, not Mckenna who was interviewed by Surfer Magazine. Sorry I misspoke in the interview. -Kyle Dr. Bruce Damer is a polyma...

#105 Transworld Surf Editor - Chris Cote

18 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Chris Cote is a “professional action sports personality.” He got his start as a competitive surfer and skateboarder before he was the editor of Tr...

#104 Nat Geo Photographer & Elk Hunting Guide - Ben & Jesse Horton

10 May 2018

Contributed by Lukas

Ben Horton has based his career on being able to go places that other people either cannot, or don’t want to go.  From thousands of feet underwater...