Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

The Last Show with David Cooper

Phubbing and Anxiety

17 Feb 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is phubbing and why is it significant?

3.862 - 29.798 David Cooper

The human algorithm, where emotional inputs create unexpected outputs. The Last Show with David Cooper. Do you think your partner is addicted to their phone? Do they look at it constantly while you're trying to have a conversation? What if that little glowing screen they stare at while they talk to you isn't a sign of disrespect? It's attachment anxiety in disguise. So let's ask this question.

0

29.838 - 46.002 David Cooper

Has your smartphone become your emotional support blanket? That is what Dr. Claire Hart has researched. She's a psychology professor at the University of Southampton in the UK. Claire, what a joy it is to have you on the show. Aren't you glad I'm not staring at my phone while we start talking?

0

47.044 - 47.745 Dr. Claire Hart

I appreciate it.

0

48.387 - 64.058 David Cooper

Fubbing, which is maybe my favorite annoying word. It means snubbing people by going on your phone. I think the immediate reaction when you're talking to someone and they whip out their phone and pay attention to it is that it's rude. But you thought to ask the question, is something else going on with that person?

0

64.291 - 83.768 Dr. Claire Hart

Yeah, I think the response, we've done a lot of research on fubbing now, and whenever I do talk about it with anybody, that is the first response. It's rude. But what we wanted to do here was show that for some people, the phone is actually being used as a way of meeting psychological needs. So it's not just about rudeness, it's

83.748 - 95.203 Dr. Claire Hart

You know, for people who are using their phone for reassurance, for validation, for feeling important. And yes, the consequence is that you then fub your partner. But there's a reason why you're doing that.

95.604 - 97.266 David Cooper

Could it have something to do with anxiety?

Chapter 2: How does attachment anxiety relate to smartphone use?

97.786 - 105.857 David Cooper

If it's at a party, maybe social anxiety. If it's when you're alone with your partner, maybe just like a general form of anxiety. Could it have something to do with that?

0

106.09 - 127.677 Dr. Claire Hart

Definitely. I mean, we were actually interested in whether certain people are more likely to fob than others. So we actually drew on attachment theory, which explains how people differ in how secure they are in their close relationships. So attachment styles, they basically develop from early experiences that you have growing up.

0

127.657 - 151.504 Dr. Claire Hart

And most people are generally secure, but there are other people who fall into that insecure category. So you might be high in what we call attachment anxiety, where you tend to worry about rejection and abandonment and you really crave reassurance. Or you might be high in attachment avoidance, where you're quite uncomfortable with closeness and you prefer emotional distance and independence.

0

151.484 - 157.833 Dr. Claire Hart

So we wanted to see how that impacts whether or not you're likely to fub and how you perceive being fubbed by other people.

0

158.173 - 169.189 David Cooper

So how does my attachment style affect whether I'm going to fub? Side note, I always find this attachment theory kind of rude because there's four kinds and only one seems good. The other three seem kind of bad.

169.169 - 185.254 Dr. Claire Hart

Very true. So in our study, we found that people who were more anxiously attached are the ones that really crave reassurance. They were much more likely to feel hurt when their partner fubbed them. Completely understandable because they're seeing this as a form of rejection. But they were also more likely to actually engage in fubbing.

185.474 - 185.995 David Cooper

Oh, no.

186.035 - 187.437 Dr. Claire Hart

Which was really, really interesting.

187.597 - 188.258 David Cooper

That's not good.

Chapter 3: What psychological needs do smartphones fulfill?

292.289 - 311.051 Dr. Claire Hart

Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. Smartphones are like these powerful little tools that immediately allow us to access these things. So there's those constant opportunities to check your messages, to monitor your social standing, to compare yourself against other people. And that can act as a way of sort of momentarily reassuring you.

0

311.071 - 322.144 Dr. Claire Hart

And therefore, you know, like, so you're anxious, you use your phone because it's fulfilling those needs. But then because you're using your phone, you're more likely to, you know, fub your partner.

0

322.175 - 332.053 David Cooper

There's also this other doom spiral or negative feedback loop. It's like, okay, I'm feeling insecure, so I reach for my phone, which makes my partner feel rejected, so they reach for their phone.

0

332.274 - 332.695 Dr. Claire Hart

That's right.

0

332.775 - 334.358 David Cooper

They're not paying attention to me.

334.558 - 336.101 Dr. Claire Hart

And then you get that confirmation bias.

336.241 - 343.575 David Cooper

Yeah, then they're not paying attention to me because they're on their phone. I then feel myself insecure. What can we do to break out of this, Claire? I gotta know.

343.555 - 358.662 Dr. Claire Hart

Yeah, that's a really good question. Because most people, when you say, well, how should you deal with fubbing? It's just like, well, reduce the amount of time that you spend on your phone. But I think the trouble is, is that what we're saying is people are using their phones because they need to have certain psychological needs met.

358.642 - 380.808 Dr. Claire Hart

So I think, you know, the interventions really need to be focusing on strengthening, like relationship security, reducing reliance on external validation via means of your phone. I mean, they're habit forming. They're designed to be that way. So try to find other more healthy ways that could perhaps involve your partner. But reflect on the values that drive your digital habits as well.

Chapter 4: How do attachment styles influence fubbing behavior?

398.998 - 404.723 Dr. Claire Hart

So have open communications with with each other about, you know, what do you want from your relationship?

0

405.544 - 415.154 David Cooper

I like it because I think the solution just use your phone less. Like if a couple walked into couples therapy and the therapist just said that it would really be missing the bigger picture here. Right.

0

415.234 - 416.155 Dr. Claire Hart

Yeah. Yeah.

0

416.438 - 426.043 David Cooper

Are phones the problem or are they just exposing attachment dynamics that were already there, just kind of exacerbating them? Like maybe we shouldn't be blaming the phones after all.

0

426.31 - 452.031 Dr. Claire Hart

I mean, the phones certainly provide a platform to make it easy to be distracted from each other. You know, that's how they've been designed. But I think that there's more to it than that in terms of, you know, like we all have these needs that need to be met. How can we actually go about doing that? So I think, you know, the phone is a platform, but it's not in itself the problem.

452.197 - 468.13 David Cooper

And for this one, maybe I'm asking for a friend. Side note, I'm asking for me. I feel really old when I'm at a party with young people like in the early 20s and they're more likely to be on their phones. Me as someone being fubbed, is there some responsibility on me just to not take it so personally?

468.667 - 485.551 Dr. Claire Hart

Again, I think it's fine to call people out. You know, just say, hi, I'm actually here. Have a conversation with me. I think, you know, a lot of people do just reach for their phones because it's a habit that they've, you know, they've just got used to doing it. So, yeah, call them out.

486.032 - 498.724 David Cooper

Okay. That's fine. I'm going to call out the next person who whips out their phone. Claire, I've enjoyed this chat. Thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you very much. Dr. Claire Hart is a psychology professor at the University of Southampton in the UK.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.