Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hi, I'm Francesca Rudkin and welcome to season six of our New Zealand Herald podcast, The Little Things. And I'm Louise Erie. As you may well know, in this podcast, we talk to experts and find out all the little things you need to know to improve different areas of your life. We cut through the confusion and overload to get some information out there to help simplify your life. We sure do.
We went on a date.
We did.
Didn't we? Yeah, it was so nice. We've known that for ages.
I know, I know. We went to the movies. We went to see The Devil Wears Prada 2, which I was very excited about seeing. I'd watched, just before going to see it, I'd watched the original and I'd forgotten how much I loved it. You know, I just, how clever it was, how witty it was.
how it managed to kind of skewer the fashion industry, but also reminding us how incredibly vital it is to sort of global economies. You know, like it was sort of, it would take the mickey, but then it would also celebrate and uplift and remind us. Oh, and the cast. And the cast is amazing.
And it kind of deals with all these topics, which most women, you know, are dealing with that sort of balance of ambition and reinvention and working and home life and raising kids and all those things. Really clever, I thought. What did you think of the sequel?
Well, I watched the first one last night, so I watched it in reverse. So again, I haven't watched it for ages and it made the sequel make more sense. So if you're going, I would suggest that if you can, if you can access it, it's on a few different streaming platforms for free. Well, not free, whatever you're paying for your platform. And so that made it make more sense.
So I kind of, my appreciation for the nuance of the A few of the little in-jokes was better after I'd watched the first one. Do you know what?
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Chapter 2: How can doomscrolling affect our mental health?
It was so great seeing you last Sunday. No engagement, no promotion by the algorithm and so on. And so I tell this whole story to remind us like a lot of what we see on social media, it's toxic for a reason. And the reason is exactly that, you know, like, A very old statement from the oldest days, go back all the way to Usenet that I was talking about earlier.
And there was a very common expression, don't feed the trolls. And the idea was, I mean, we could never resist it anyway, even back then, but somebody comes on and they're just trying to get a rise out of people and people respond and it causes a huge fight on a mailing list or on Usenet or whatever.
Well, now not only we have that human instinct of it's kind of hard to resist feeding the troll by going, what are you saying? That's outrageous. When the algorithms are actually feeding the trolls, they are encouraging that behavior. There are people who are major political influencers on Twitter who some of them get to be quite famous.
And you look at the output of what they're writing and you're like, They would have never stood a chance 30 years ago because they're just saying crazy, angry stuff. They're not putting forward a thoughtful critique of the current administration. They're just ranting. And it's like, yeah, but those aren't really the best people to help us think about how do we improve the world.
So why do we feed the trolls? Why do we get sort of stuck in the cesspools of this toxic kind of online behavior?
I mean, some of it's just human, you know. I mean, I think, you know, we've all had the experience of, you knowā¦ There's a very famous web comic called XKCD, and probably their most famous panel ever was one. It's like a stick figure cartoon, but it's really funny. I recommend people look at it.
But two people, and one of them is on the computer, and the other one is saying, come on, honey, it's time for bed. And the person says, I can't. Someone's wrong on the internet.
And I think...
I've had that experience and I've actually I pulled back. I'm very little on Twitter anymore. I almost would delete my account, but I just really try not to go on there. And I definitely try to remind myself of that. It's like, well, you're arguing with somebody who has three followers who's not making any sense. Like, why are you even doing this? And it's kind of a natural thing.
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Chapter 3: How can we encourage respectful dialogue in online spaces?
uh, you know, tech news or reading on the latest developments in AI where I'm doing something I find interesting, but it actually, in some ways going to improve my life. I'm actually going to come away and say, Oh, actually, there's some value.
It adds value to your life, right?
And that, and of course I'm, I just named a couple of things that sound quite worthy, but it can just be like, actually, I'm, I'm binge watching a show and I want to know when the next episode's coming out or, you know, whatever it might be. Um, so, um,
You know, I think we can make choices, and I think we should try to make choices to say, like, actually, if some kind of social media is making you unhappy, then just stop doing it. Like, just pull away from it. And actually, the hardest part sometimes is to stop and go, like, you know what, actually...
I've always thought I was enjoying this, that I, you know, that this is, you know, oh, I'm addicted to it. I love Twitter. I'm on there all the time. And it's like, no, I'm addicted to it, but not because I love it and think it's great. It's because it's toxic and, you know, I've gotten into a bad habit.
We kind of forget that we can control our own doom scrolling.
Yeah, exactly.
It's funny, isn't it?
But then, you know, we have to concede, like, there's a lot of really bad stuff going on in the world, you know. And so it's, you know, there's a lot to worry about.
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Chapter 4: What insights does Jimmy Wales provide about the internet's negativity?
And so I get that, you know. I'm a very ā I call myself a pathological optimist, and I am. But I also can acknowledge it's like, yeah, you know, like I look and I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, the President of the United States just said ā
open the straight you bastards and then two days later he says i'm closing the straight i'm like what what mad world are we living in like this is crazy you know it's like what are we even doing here so you know you can get upset about stuff like that but you know i think we all you know you can control the space where you are and you can think about how to make life better for yourself or the people you love and you know help take the steps to bring back a culture of trust and positivity
I think too that we need to remember that we're not keeping ourselves informed by just going on to our, whichever it is, Instagram or Twitter or whatever and feeding our own algorithm. That's not being informed. That's getting your position reinforced over and over again. Yeah.
Yeah, I agree completely. And indeed, you know, sometimes I think we should evaluate. And this is not about social media. This is about the news. I'm kind of a news junkie. I think a lot of us are. And particularly around elections. I remember one election, it was the primary campaign, Obama versus Hillary. And it was kind of neck and neck for a while, but Obama was pulling ahead.
And I realized like me watching this as if it's a sporting event or a horse race is actually a complete waste of my time. Like I can't impact it. I don't know what's gonna happen. Um, it looks like Obama's going to win. So I think I'll just ignore it now. I don't, there's nothing I need to know. And I, I really try it actively.
Like I'm not going to read every, the results of every primary, uh, you know, every preliminary ballot and so on and so forth. It just, it's not. And so I do think like when we think about, oh, I want to be informed, um, Okay, let's step back and go, okay, what does it really mean to be informed?
And it may not be tracking the news obsessively all the time because a lot of it is kind of like not relevant to... anything that you can make a decision on and maybe a once a week, you know, actually something I, I I'm, I'm very unhappy that I can't seem to find a way at my house. I live in the countryside in England. I can't get a newspaper delivered.
I'm like, Oh, when I was a kid, I was a newspaper boy and I delivered papers on a Sunday. It was a very cold morning job, you know, but I love a paper. I love a, like a big chunky newspaper.
chunk of paper because there's something nice and relaxing about that and probably if i did that once a week and i still do i i but i have to go out to the shop and buy the paper so it's a pain in the neck i can't get it delivered but it's a really good point probably as informed as i would be on anything meaningful i'm as informed as i would be if i were obsessively on twitter all the time because not that much actually happens you know you get a summary once a week you're good to go
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Chapter 5: Why do algorithms amplify outrage over kindness online?
Maybe you need to have some therapy if that's your first reaction. It's like, oh, hey, I don't know what happened. You got a few extra drinks and what do you think they're going to do? They're not going to try and lie. They're going to go, oh, hold on. Oh, yeah, yeah. So sorry. And they're going to apologize and it's all going to be fine because we do trust like
People aren't generally trying to rip you off. And so we do get that like, oh, yeah, your expectation of other people is assume good faith. Oh, they obviously made a mistake on the bill. Not, oh, my God, they're trying to rip us off. Now, sometimes they are trying to rip you off. So, you know, you can't be naive forever.
But largely, you know, you can say, you know, actually, they made a mistake and that's fine. And this is sort of my, yeah.
So if there's one thing we could perhaps, if we are trying to get along in this world, one thing we could try and change about the way we approach things is to assume that good faith in the first place and have them prove us wrong if that's the case, rather than assume the other.
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's hard to do sometimes, but if I were to hear someone say, I mean, part of it is we live in bubbles, so I'm not going to hear anybody say, oh, I think Brexit's great. But I should say, hold on. Why? Tell me what about it appealed to you. Let me just listen first. And I think that's hugely valuable and hugely important. Yeah.
Jimmy, it's been a delight to talk to you. I can't thank you enough for your time. I'm excited.
I'm coming to New Zealand and it's my first time ever in New Zealand. I've been to Australia once before and I've always wanted to come to New Zealand. Unfortunately, I don't have that much time, which is a shame, but I'm going to take a look around and then start campaigning with my family. We should come for a holiday. For sure. I think it'd be brilliant.
Jimmy Wells, thank you so much.
Yep, thank you.
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