The Mel Robbins Podcast
Understanding This Will Change How You Experience Your Entire Life
Mon, 19 May 2025
Today’s episode is going to fundamentally change the way you think about spirituality — and what it truly means to live a deep and meaningful life. Mel sits down with Dr. Lisa Miller, the world’s leading expert on the neuroscientific benefits of spirituality. Her groundbreaking research proves that every human being is biologically hardwired for spirituality — even if, right now, it means nothing to you. Dr. Miller’s work shows that spiritual connection — however you define it — changes your brain for the better. It can protect you from depression, anxiety, addiction, hopelessness, and burnout, and it gives you powerful tools to get through the hardest times in your life. We are living in a moment where believing in something beyond yourself can feel impossible. You might be feeling uncertain, anxious, or even pessimistic about the future — but this conversation will open your mind to possibilities you may have never considered before. Dr. Miller will prove to you, using science, that when you awaken this innate part of your brain, you unlock resilience, clarity, connection, and a deep sense of purpose. You’ll learn: -The #1 thing that separates people who are resilient and hopeful from those who struggle -The enormous difference between spirituality and religion (and why that matters for your mental health) -How to unlock your brain’s “awakened” network — the key to creativity, intuition, and deep meaning -How to nurture spirituality in yourself and your kids (even if you don’t know where to start) -Why crises, heartbreak, and hardship can be portals to spiritual growth and personal transformation.Whether you’re deeply spiritual, skeptical, or somewhere in between, this episode will inspire you to see that spirituality isn’t just a “nice to have” — it’s an essential part of being human. If you’re feeling stuck, lost, hopeless, or like there must be something more to life, this conversation is coming to you at exactly the right moment. For more resources, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked this episode, you’ll love listening to this one next: How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You WantConnect with Mel: Get Mel’s #1 bestselling book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Sign up for Mel’s personal letter Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-freeDisclaimer
Chapter 1: What is the main topic of this episode?
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad that you're here today because today's conversation is going to fundamentally change the way that you think about spirituality and what it means at its core to live a deep and meaningful life. Our guest today is the world's leading expert on the neuroscientific benefits of spirituality.
Her groundbreaking research has found that being spiritual, whatever that means to you, even if right now it means nothing, Her research proves that being spiritual changes your brain for the better, and it can protect you from and help you overcome hopelessness, depression, addiction, anxiety, and other mental health conditions.
See, you and I are living in a time when believing in something beyond yourself can feel impossible. Right now more than ever, you may be feeling uncertain, afraid, anxious, and maybe even pessimistic about the future. I am so grateful to have the conversation today because it will raise the stakes on life. It'll open your mind to possibilities that you may have never considered before.
But after listening, you will know deep in your heart it is true. because our guest today is going to prove to you, using science, that every single person on this planet is hardwired for spirituality. She will also explain the enormous difference between religion and spirituality. They're two different things.
And that when you understand what spirituality is and how you are hardwired for it, and that when you awaken this particular part of your brain, You unlock something extraordinary within you. You unlock resilience, clarity, connection to something deeper, and meaning. You tap into joy. And if you're already a spiritual person, today's conversation, it will make you go so much deeper.
If you're not spiritual at all, you're very intellectual. I have a lot of people in my life like this. They're like, I don't know. Just trust me and listen, because you're going to find a way to start that is simple, easy, and make spirituality and this innate wiring in you work for you. So if you're feeling lost or stuck or hopeless or empty or just like, there must be something more.
This episode has come to you at the exact moment that you need it. And I'm so glad you're here. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited for the conversation that we are going to have today. I have been anticipating this one for months. And I'm going to start by saying it's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together.
I think today we are both going to feel honored that we got to share this experience together. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm glad you're here, and I know by the time you're done listening, you are going to be so glad you took the time to listen to this today.
Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You're the kind of person who values a meaningful life. You value connection. You want to feel fulfilled in how you're living your life, and you're looking for inspiration on how you can do that, how you can bring more meaning into your day-to-day life.
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Chapter 2: How can spirituality impact mental health?
Well, that's the piece that I miss. I think the piece for me that is hard about the quest, and I know a lot of my friends... certainly feel the same way. So do my kids is this sense of, I don't know where to go for the community piece of it.
Because if you're grappling with what you even believe, and you're not somebody that is really into doctrine, or you bristle when you see the complete disconnect between what's being said versus what the people who are saying it are actually doing in the world, and so there's zero integrity there, then... it's hard to find the community part of it because I do feel that it's a lonely thing
It certainly can be.
And when you don't like the torchbearer, when the torchbearer doesn't walk the walk, but you know the flame is real, then the quest is to find other flame carriers. And it can show up in a parenting circle. We're not going to talk about like whose kid got into what college. We're here to walk with each. We're not keeping up with the Joneses. We're walking with the Joneses.
And this is a spiritual parenting circle.
Dr. Miller, I am just so grateful that you're here. And this feels like the perfect time to take a pause, give our sponsors a chance to share some important words with you. And I also want to give you a chance to just reflect on all that you're learning so far, all that's opening up for you, and be generous with this.
Share Dr. Miller's wisdom with people in your life that you care about and that you love. There's no doubt in my mind that what we're learning today absolutely is transformative for each and every one of us. Don't go anywhere. Dr. Miller and I are gonna be waiting for you after a short break.
Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are learning about the neuroscience and research surrounding the benefits of spirituality. Dr. Miller, I'm so excited about the prospect of living an inspired life and tapping into this innate spirituality within all of us.
You know, something I was fascinated by in your book is that when you looked at brain scans of people who are experiencing something spiritual, that the scans all look the same, like different places on the globe, across genders, races, types of spiritual experiences. Can you tell us like what you actually saw when you look at brain scans and somebody's having a spiritual experience?
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Chapter 3: What is the difference between spirituality and religion?
In fact, you say the ability to be spiritual, which is to be connected to and in dialogue with the deeper nature and forces of life is our birthright. Yes.
Science says you are spiritual. Science says spirituality is your birthright. No one is left out. Everyone is spiritual.
For somebody that does that meditation and you can visualize the table, you start to drop in the people, right? That you said, seat people at the table. Who truly have your best interest in mind. Who truly have your best interest in mind. And then you ask the question, do they love you?
Hmm.
For somebody who immediately starts to put up resistance or go, oh, this is so cheesy or for crying out loud. Here we go with the thing. What is happening in their brain?
Well, first of all, I invite you to be curious. Okay. Whatever you might think about your parents' religion or your grandparents' religion or the torchbearer who didn't walk the walk. You know, the flame is pure and bright. The fire is divine. But the torchbearer was a human being.
Mm-hmm.
who may have talked the walk, but not walked the walk. Whoever you met and whatever you thought, this is your spiritual path. And no one can do it but you. This is your authentic, sacred, spiritual journey. So let's start with the word God. I have heard so many people say, I just don't believe it with the guy in the beard. Okay, that's how a human being on earth described God.
But what about you and your precious shot at life? How do you experience God? And what is God based on your own direct lived experience? What does your heart say? So, okay, for you, God might not be a guy with a beard. Is there a presence in and through life? that holds you and loves you so that when things have gone wrong, you actually didn't fall through a black hole of abyss? Were you held?
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Chapter 4: How can I nurture spirituality in myself and my children?
It's your sense that no matter how much I mess up and the things I'm ashamed of that I've done, there's something deep and alive and eternal, the flame that's worthy. Your soul is worthy. And your understanding of this doesn't need to be intellectual. In fact, through the lens of science, spirituality is not a belief. It is a deep seat of perception.
Science shows us that we are built and wired to see and know the deep reality of life. It is a feeling of being loved. It is the sense of being buoyant. And it is not just a nice feeling like happiness. It is a perception of the truth of the way the world is really built. Spirituality is the relationship between one, your ability to see and know the deep sacred current in life.
Two, that this current is real. And three, that every single day you have the opportunity to have a relationship. to ride with the current of life and see where the river is taking you. The brain is not a factory that makes spiritual thoughts. The brain is an antenna that receives spiritual truth.
Okay. I need to expand on this because you wrote about this in your bestselling book, The Awakened Brain. I mean, this is where I took out the highlighter and was like, wait, what? And this is on page 102. And I really want you to unpack this for us. You basically had this kind of aha moment as you're getting your PhD where you're like, okay, wait a minute.
Psychology talks about human beings as this closed loop and that, you know, the assumption at the time is that your brain creates thoughts, that all meaning is interpretation, and
and that we can feel better by rearranging our thoughts, which I talk about a lot in conversations on this podcast with world-renowned experts in terms of your mindset and how you think about things and reframing things from the positive to the negative and not being so pessimistic, but being more optimistic, right?
And that by disputing negative thoughts or thoughts that make us unhappy and replacing depressing thoughts with a new framework that helps you tell a brighter story, that that's sort of the thrust of psychology and reframing. To feel good. Yes. And then you write, but what if the brain didn't create thoughts so much as receive them? What if our brains were less like idea generators?
and more like an antenna or docking station for receiving a larger consciousness? What if to feel better is actually to detect and be in alignment with that consciousness? And what if emotions direct us into the world as it really is?
And you were discovering the science of synchronicity, that feeling better isn't just a matter of creating new thoughts, of replacing unhappy ones with happier ones. It's also about noticing and aligning ourselves with whatever life is showing us. There's never a guarantee that we're going to get what we want or what we thought we wanted.
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