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Chapter 1: Can you build wealth on a modest salary?
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods moving in storage studios. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey.
Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about jobs and careers today. and your life about that. He's with me today as a co-host, so we'll particularly dive into those subjects if you want to. The phone number, 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money.
Joseph is in Indianapolis. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.
Hi, how are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
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Chapter 2: When should you buy life insurance during the Baby Steps?
Well, I had a pretty simple question. I always hear two sides of the coin. I hear sometimes people say you should make the most money that you can and get a job that just pays the most. And I've heard other people say that it's not about what you make, it's about how you live your life, your lifestyle, and what you can save.
And I guess my question is, is it still possible to live a wealthy or successful life if, say, you're only bringing in maybe $35,000 annually?
Well, it depends on how you define wealth, you know. I will tell you that you can absolutely be successful. I'll ask you a question. Do you believe Mother Teresa was successful? Yes. Why was Mother Teresa successful in your mind?
She did a lot of good, you know, and always tried to do her best.
Yeah, see, the reason I ask it that way is because that was her role. It doesn't mean it's your role.
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Chapter 3: How can I get out of an upside-down vehicle?
It doesn't mean we all have to go to Calcutta. But Mother Teresa chose to serve, to live in that way. That was her specific design, her role, her time in history. So let's answer the success question that way. Success to me is not just about work results. Success is what am I relationally? I have a relational purpose as a husband and a father, a son, a brother, a friend, a coworker, an employee.
I've got some relationship purpose in my life, but I also have professional purpose. So that's the success thing. Now, building wealth, again, wealth to me is not just financial wealth, but you can – we've got teachers that are the average salary – not average, the median right now is about $61,000 in the United States.
And we have a lot of millionaires who have been teachers, and they've lived on less. they've chosen to define success differently. And as a result, they've put money away and they've saved. They've lived like no one else. And so now they live and give like no one else.
Chapter 4: How can I use my savings to make more money?
So $35,000 does limit the speed and rate by which you can stack and save money. And I think you can make more. But theoretically, yes, you can be successful and build wealth.
Earl Nightingale said the definition of success is the progressive realization of a worthy goal or ideal. Now, so here's the problem with your question, the framing of your question. You said two sides of a coin. It's not two sides of a coin. There are two possible outcomes, okay?
Either I don't make a lot of money and I do something that I'm fulfilled in and I'm successful, but I struggle financially. Or I make a lot of money doing something I hate and I don't struggle financially. Those aren't the only two possible outcomes. There's a third one. How about I do something I love that really benefits mankind and I make a huge pile of money.
Why do you have to make less to be satisfied? Why do you have to make less for it to have meaning?
Chapter 5: Should we have a larger emergency fund?
You don't. That's a fatalistic approach to this whole concept. And so here's the point. If you make $35,000 a year and that's all you ever make and you never get a raise, well, you suck. You should get a raise. You should have some progressive realization. You should have progress. You should get better at what you're doing and make more money, at least in your chosen field.
So the idea that I have to, you know... somehow live at the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder in order to be a worthy person or in order to be doing good works is simply not true it's simply not true so i choose none of the above i choose do something very worthy and make a lot of money I choose that one. That's the one I want to choose. But is that the only definition of success? No.
I mean, we've pre-established in the conversation.
Chapter 6: Can we afford the house we want?
Mother Teresa is successful. She has a progressive realization of a worthy goal or ideal. Oh, by the way, she was the biggest and largest scale of her type. That's right. I mean, the number of hungry people, the number of people that were ministered to was massive. That's right.
But not commensurate to the amount of money she made. Well, she didn't make any money.
That's right. took a vow of poverty, so she didn't make any money. And she came from a wealthy family and abandoned the inheritance in order to become a nun.
So yes, she's successful and absolutely never going to diss someone that chooses to do that, but there's this narrative that is running around in America today that Ken and I are both fighting against all the time on the career side that says, well, If I work for a nonprofit and make half of what I'm worth, that somehow I'm holier. No, it was just a dumb choice. You're not holier.
Chapter 7: What is the best way to budget for my financial goals?
Or, well, you don't really mean that as a dumb choice. You don't mean that.
If you choose to work for a nonprofit because you care deeply about that work and you could take the same skill set and make double in the corporate world, but you choose to do it in that space because you love it and you apply that to your life and you change your lifestyle, that's not dumb, but that's also not saying that.
What is dumb is the idea that the only way that you can do something that is of a higher calling and that has meaning is to make no money. I agree with that. That is just not true.
I 100% agree.
I'm living proof that that's not true.
That's right.
I've helped millions and millions of people, and I've made a lot of money. Right. Making a lot of money was not the main goal. Helping millions of people was. That's correct.
But we're also citing, we have done Ramsey Solutions, and Dave's urging the largest study ever of net worth millionaires, the fourth largest group are school teachers.
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Chapter 8: How do I effectively manage my money in uncertain times?
Third. They're not dumb. Third largest, yeah.
third i apologize third but the point here is my point you didn't mean what i meant is the idea is dumb that you have to make less for it to have meaning yeah it's incomplete it's it's you're right it's not accurate it's accurate it's a false narrative yeah and so that's what i want to push back against and if you make 35 000 if you make the same exact amount of money unless you're mother tracy and you took a bow of poverty uh if you're if you're in a career field and you make exactly the same for 30 years that by definition means you are not progressing yeah there
should be you're not getting better and that's not okay either yeah that's you need to be getting better you need to be better in your service to humanity better in the level of meaning that you're getting from the work better in your excellence better in the scale of what you're doing if helping three stray dogs is a good thing then helping 3 000 of them is a better thing that's right okay so i mean whatever it is you're doing that you know you should be getting better at it you should be progressively yes the progressive realization of a worthy goal or ideal it's a really good
definition so one of the best cool question cool question and a good discussion but uh don't let people sell you this idea that that the only thing that is is good it is unproductive and quite the contrary this is the ramsey show Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my cohost today. Thank you for joining us America. We're so glad you're here. Hey, listen guys, there's a lot of things going on.
Inflation, high interest rates, student loans are kicking back in. We just passed a trillion dollars in credit card debt for the first time in history. Wow. A lot of people doing a really crummy job with their money. You know what you don't do? No one does a crummy job on purpose. Doing a crummy job is when you hit the default button and just coast. You know what on purpose is in money?
It's learning to do a budget. The EveryDollar budgeting app will do that. You can sit down and start using that. Jade Warshaw did a webinar today that was free on how to do a budget, including an irregular income. 10,000 people showed up for that webinar today. Thank you. Wow. So we'll do it again. Rachel Cruz is going to do one of these webinars, teaching you how to do a budget.
And Rachel's been teaching every dollar for many years. And the irregular income thing and unpredictable income and how to work the baby steps into your budget and all that, how to work with your spouse on a budget. Rachel's going to cover every bit of that Tuesday, August 15th. That'll be this coming Tuesday at 1230 p.m. You can sign up for free.
for the webinar and Rachel's goal of course is to draw more people than Jade. So this is how this works around Ramsey. I'm just saying. So check it out. Every dollar dot com slash budgeting. Every dollar dot com slash budgeting. And you're actually allowed to come to more than one of these if you want. Guess what? George will be doing one later. So, hey, every dollar dot com slash budgeting.
Sign up for the free webinar this coming Tuesday, August 15th with Rachel Cruz. Elizabeth is in Boston. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?
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