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Chapter 1: What financial challenges are discussed in this episode?
Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.
George Campbell, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour is my co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Darren and Ariel are with us in New York. Hi, guys. How are you? Okay. Thank you for meeting us. Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? It's such an honor to speak to you. You go, Ariel.
Well, we've read your books. We follow your plans. However, I made some errors when I went back to school to obtain a degree and landed myself in almost $300,000 in student debt. Ouch. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? I am neither, unfortunately. What are you? What degree did you get? I'm a social worker. For $300,000, what do you make? Not nearly that.
My plan had been to, and this is what I was encouraged to do by my professors, was to work for the government and do 10 years of working, you know, in the nonprofit sector, but that hasn't worked out. So here I find myself, and we are calling for guidance. Yeah. What do you make now? What's your household income between you and Darren? Well, at the moment I'm not working, we have a six-month-old.
And Darren brings in gross $107,000, right? $107,000 a year? $107,000, but it comes down to $5,000 a month. And you live in the city, in Manhattan? No, we live in a suburb. Yeah, we live in a suburb of New Jersey. Okay. We have a paid-for house. Oh, okay. That's nice. Yeah, that really helps. What is it worth? About $450. Yeah. And Darren, what do you do for a living? I work for the government.
I work for data analytics for the Department of Health. Okay, cool. Cool. Okay. And how long have you been doing that? 25 years. Wow. We're older. I'm 50. My wife is 40. We got married three years ago, and we have a six-month-old.
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Chapter 2: How can a couple manage $300,000 in student loan debt?
We want to pay this off in our lifetime. We know you have very practical advice, so, you know, that's why we call it. Well, I mean, what I always reach for is the basic sixth-grade math, right, which is there's two sides, income and outgo. We've got a big hole, which is 300 grand.
We've got a medium-sized shovel, which is 107, until you drop it into New Jersey, and that makes it a small shovel and a brand-new baby. And so I'm starting to look, you know, where can we get income up and outgo down? My husband works second part-time job, and as I said, I also have a disability, so for me in New Jersey, I can't drive.
So that's also part of the equation where I was, at my last couple of jobs, I was getting a negative return, which is why I didn't go back after the baby was born. And what's the nature of your disability, hon? I have a seizure disorder, which prevents me from driving. Okay. All right. That's reality. Okay. Wow. Okay.
So, you know, if I'm looking at your situation through your eyes for a second, I'm saying the more money we can make, the faster we get out of this. And that involves Darren maximizing his career and Ariel maximizing her career. Okay. What is the most money we can possibly make? Does that involve a move?
Does it involve the fact that data analytics is a very hot field and you might be worth 200K in the open market if you got away from the government? It's a very hot field. And so I'm just looking at all of those ideas. With your current take-home pay, this is going to take you seven to ten years. Yeah. So that's the issue here is the napkin math says you can throw $50,000 at this.
It's done in six years. But $50,000 is, you know, $4,000 a month, and you're taking home five. We don't have that. Yeah, exactly. So I'm just showing you the length that will be shortened to a Dave's point if you can make more.
And that might mean if Ariel can go make 70 grand as a social worker, it might be worth, you know, finding childcare, even if it costs you 30, so that you can get out of this faster. Right. So I've never, like, unfortunately, I'm provisionally licensed. you know, life, et cetera, and finding supervision and having unfortunate people. I don't know all the obstacles. You've got a lot of them.
But what I do know is you need more income. For sure. And I was looking into possibilities. I've been working freelance, doing other things outside my field to try to bring in some income. But unfortunately, freelance work has not been, I mean, I've made money, but not nearly enough. Yeah, I hear you.
So I think you both have to sit down and do some soul searching about where we work, where can we work to make the most money to clean this up, because it's not going away. You figured that part out. That's why you called. And it goes away when you pay it off. And so where we work and where we live. And those are the things that impact this.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of not filing taxes since 2020?
But if we suddenly go from $100 to $300, oh, ding, ding, we can knock this out within two or three years. And that starts to get there. But it's going to require some kind of pretty dramatic shifts in your career tracks because the ones that you're on, you're going to be there a long time, and it's not going to be fun, which is why you called.
It just breaks my heart to hear that any school is charging $300,000 for a degree in social work. That might net you $50,000 a year. Yeah. The math on that, the ROI of some of these degrees is just not there. And so it starts with being very careful of where you go to school, why you're going to school. And I would just get the cheapest degree that allows me to do the work that I want to do.
Yeah, exactly. But I mean, that... That's if we could have talked to Ariel 10 years ago. If I could turn back time. If we could turn back time. But the rest of you out there, take a lesson. So actually study what the degree costs. Is there other ways I can get it, other places I can get it? Because, you know, this is the job market for this degree. Yeah. It's just horrible. You're right, George.
It's highway robbery. And it's laughable that her professors, of course, they got a degree in social work, so what do they know? You know, they're only out as you go take a job with the government, work there 10 years, and that'll be forgiven. Of course, they don't even know how that works because they didn't do that. They shouldn't be giving financial advice.
No, they shouldn't be giving any advice, which begs the question, why are they doing social work? But there you go. Ugh. Man, I'm sorry you guys are in this, but it is truly a income outgo flex on the equation. That's what it takes. That's what it's going to take.
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Chapter 4: How can a family thrive with a disabled spouse?
If in your situation, what do you owe on the condo? We owe 309. Okay. So let's pretend that you didn't own this condo and you had $100,000 stacked in the middle of your kitchen table. And you said, okay, honey. We should go buy a condo in California and put $100,000 down that won't rent for enough to pay the payment.
Both of you would look at each other like you got one eye in the center of your head and say, that's the dumbest idea I ever heard. Right? Right. I agree. You did not buy this condo as a rental. It's a leftover from a former life before you moved to Sioux Falls, isn't it? Mm-hmm. That is correct. Yeah. Because nobody would do this on purpose. Right.
If you were going to buy a $400,000 condo, you wouldn't buy it in California when you live in Sioux Falls. You'd buy it in Sioux Falls. Right. And you would buy one that actually gave you an ROI. So there's just so much about this. There's like six reasons to sell this and none to keep it. Long distance landlords that are losing money. Nothing about this sounds fun to me to keep around as a toy.
Right. So why does he want to keep it? He thinks real estate's the answer to all your riches. He thinks that in time, the return on investment will be worth it. Nope. And I understand that, you know, renting, but the market in California with rent, it's California is the problem for me because the market there, even for landlords and renting, it's terrible. Mm-hmm.
But he thinks that property value is just going to go up, and there's always going to be renters wanting to rent it. Property values in real estate do not go up fast enough to offset a bad idea. Yeah. And this is a bad idea. I love real estate. The larger portion of my net worth is real estate. So I'm big on real estate. I want you to own real estate.
But this real estate, you don't own this real estate. It owns you. Right. This is a crappy situation. Yeah. Sell it, sell it, sell it, sell it. You win the argument, Maggie, but you even knew that before you called. I did, but, you know, and I mean... And it's not a ha-ha, I win, you lose. No, I'm not saying that, and you're not either. I agree. Yeah, because, I mean, I agree.
I want you guys to get out of debt. Yeah, get out of debt, build you a big old pile of money, pay off your house, and with your next pile of money, if you want to go buy you a nice condo there in Sioux Falls, Sioux Falls is a great market. Go buy a nice condo in there and pay cash for it and watch it go up in value and you'll make money every month. Yeah, then real estate is a good investment.
But right now, you've got freaking consumer debt. And this thing barely breaks even if everything works perfect. Yeah, that's if everything works perfect. And it doesn't. I think we were kind of handed a nice little out-of-left-field type of situation. Yeah, get-out-of-jail-free card. The tenants actually want to buy it. Will they buy it at the market value? And we're not.
Well, this is super early in the conversation, but what we were told was that their looking price is well over what the condo is worth on the market. Right. Okay, so here's the thing. I love real estate, and I'm telling you this is a bad deal. I would get out of it if it was me. Number one, I don't do long-distance landlording.
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Chapter 5: What are the benefits of using NetSuite for business management?
But you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works.
And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move.
But NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. If you've got a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, use Ramsey Smart Tax.
It's affordable, keeps filing really simple, and it has built-in support in case you do need a little help.
Chapter 6: How can I effectively file my taxes if I haven't done so since 2020?
Filing early means you get the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax and start filing today. And there's not a bunch of gotchas in there like the other people, like termitex. It's quote-unquote free until you have one extra document. And then it's like $468 million then. It's crazy.
The little add-ons will get you, boys and girls. All right, not with us. Hey, David is in Los Angeles. Hey, David, what's up? Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? I wanted to ask a question.
My wife and I have been given an opportunity to move to Alaska for a job that sounds like it's going to be much better for our family in terms of time, getting to spend time together. But I'm a little nervous because it's technically a title lower than the one I'm currently working on.
I'm wanting to make sure I'm not giving up too much opportunity, but also want to improve my family's life in the immediate situation. So kind of get a little guidance on that. What is your field? Why does title matter?
Chapter 7: What should I consider before moving my family to Alaska?
Yeah, so I'm a marriage and family therapist. I'm currently working as a clinical director at a treatment center down here. What's the new title? So the new title would be a clinical manager rather than clinical director. It does come with a little bit of a pay raise, about $6,000 a year, so nothing too crazy. But just want to make sure that, you know, I...
I don't know if it's a horrible idea to be taking a lower title in the long run. Well, is your cost of living going to be much lower in Alaska versus L.A.? So it is. Essentially, we would be able to live for a bit cheaper out there, and we'd be making more money. Plus less taxes. It feels like a no-brainer. Yeah. Well, it's cold, though. It's definitely cold. That's the tradeoff.
And there's bears. And there's also a few bears. Yeah. Uh, so I am not an expert on the clinical field. I wish Dr. John Deloney was sitting here with me.
Chapter 8: How can I negotiate a better salary when changing jobs?
Sorry, George. And, um, he has a PhD in counseling and he knows all those people. He knows all that stuff. He knows the time. My perspective looking in from the outside as a layman is I don't think there's two people on the planet that will notice your title change. I don't think it matters. Okay. I mean, Henry Cloud is one of my best friends.
He's a clinical guy, one of the most famous in the world, and others I've known in that world because we've been around that world for 30 years because we deal with so much mental issues around money stuff. So we've become friends with that world, and I have never – In 35 years, I've never had the occasion to go, oh, that guy is a manager, not a director.
He runs the dadgum place or he doesn't run the dadgum place is the way I look at it. So that's an outsider outside the industry looking in. So I'm not sure how valuable my opinion is. But I personally have never been someone that collects titles. I collect the ability to get things done and get paid for it. And so it sounds like that's what you're doing.
You're being a little bit more utilitarian rather than esoteric, right? That's true, yeah. Are the responsibilities the same? Yeah, I mean, responsibilities are essentially exactly the same. I'm still running the place. I still have the same oversight, just about the same amount of employees. Okay, let's fast forward. Let's put the moccasins under the foot for the fun of it.
You've been doing this a while. You know the world. So if someday you were a regional... director of eight different mental health centers. And someone came to you for an interview and they both had done the exact same job. Would you care what their title was? I can't say that I would. I wouldn't. I think that I would be able to say this is the same thing. Exactly.
You would look at it and go, you know, just in Alaska they named it this, and in L.A. they named it that, and it's the same job description, same duties, same responsibilities. Crud, the Alaska one may have a bigger budget that you're managing. I don't know. I mean, there could be actual more qualifiers. The only other thing I'd throw out is I would ask for more money.
Alaska generally pays a premium to get people to live there. Yeah. And you're getting a little bit of a premium. And I wouldn't ask for a set amount. I would just say, hey, I was talking to my financial counselor, and he said he's not sure this is a good idea. Is this the best you can do? And just see what they say. The worst thing they can say is, yeah, that's the best we can do.
And you go, okay, I'm coming, right? Or they go, oh, no, you know, we could actually do $20,000 more. And you go, oh, that one silly little question just made me $15,000, you know? Or maybe it's a kind of sign-on bonus or extra relocation. And don't do it with a belligerent personality. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying, just go, hey, I'm just wondering.
I know Alaska sometimes pays a premium. And is this all you all have in the budget? Is there anything else you can do? Yeah. And asking a gentle, open-ended question, you might be blown away with how much they add to that $6,000. And it's a general negotiating posture to take anyway, folks, on anything. Is that the best you can do? And it's like, oh, no, I can do a whole lot more.
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