The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Thu, 24 Apr 2025
How did Sunday's major moment compare to the video game version? Did [redacted] hit as hard the second time around? And what might some significant changes from ‘The Last of Us Part II’ portend for the rest of the season? Ben and Daniel break down the big twist and the consequential second episode’s other developments from a ‘TLOU’ player’s perspective. Hosts: Ben Lindbergh and Daniel Chin Producer: Devon Renaldo Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts and what is the focus of this podcast episode?
Hello and welcome into The Ringerverse, your Nexus feed for all things fandom. I am Ben Lindberg, senior editor for The Ringer, and with me is my co-host for these Button Mash Last of Us Season 2 episodes. I made him a part of this. Ringer staff writer Daniel Chin. Daniel, why don't you say whatever speech you've got rehearsed and get this over with.
Hey, Ben. It's good to be back here. Just a normal episode we're here to talk about. Nothing big happened.
Nope. Nothing special. Just a routine episode of television that we will be talking about today. We are here to discuss The Last of Us Season 2, Episode 2, Through the Valley, written by Craig Mazin, directed by Game of Thrones and Succession legend Mark Mylod. If you were with us last week... You know the drill.
Here on Button Mash, we're giving you the gamer's guide to this season as we analyze the latest HBO episode from the perspective of two people who've played the Last of Us series for years. And this week's episode, well, this was the one we've been expecting, the one we've been dreading. You know, it's funny.
I've waited so... Oh, just shut the fuck up and do it already.
You don't get to rush this. Don't make me get my golf club, Daniel. Let's start with our spoiler warning. It's a little less pressing than it was last week because we got one major spoiler out of the way, but still pretty important. We will be discussing everything on the show through season two, episode two. We will not be discussing future episodes of the second season.
In fact, we haven't seen them, but everything else from the Last of Us universe is fair game, so to speak, including the entirety of The Last of Us Part Two. That said, do you feel as relieved as I do that the responsibility, the burden has been lifted from us now? We no longer have to keep the massive secret about what happened to Joe Miller.
Definitely. Especially, at least in this podcast, we're going spoilers, of course. But in writing the weekly recaps, every single time I'm like, is this like a little too leading? Is it like clear that I know what's going to happen? Do the readers know?
Yeah.
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Chapter 2: How did the internet and fan reactions respond to 'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2?
I think that coming out even before anyone had actually played the game, really, or before most people have. And then that spilled out. That was in some ways worse, potentially, because you were hearing about it secondhand and no one was having the experience of having played it.
And then if you did find out when you actually got your hands on the game, well, at that point, you've maybe been waiting seven years since the first Last of Us. And you've spent 15 hours in that first game controlling Joel. Yeah. And then they dropped this bomb on you.
So if anything, the reaction among players was more intense, though maybe more diffuse because people were getting to it at different times and because you could keep playing. So it wasn't just he dies episode over. We have nothing else to discuss for a week. you could press on and immediately see how the rest of the story unfolded.
So it's different this time, but similarly seismic, much like the ending of the first game and the first season, where we kind of knew what was coming. That was a carbon copy. That was basically shot for shot, word for word. And this one was not, as we will be discussing in depth today. But it was similar enough in the big beats that we sort of knew what was in store. And we
didn't disappoint i would say i do feel bad for anyone who made it to sunday and then like didn't watch instantly on sunday night and got spoiled before they could watch it on sunday or on monday or whatever they're like i could wait till the next night or something if you made it all that time and then you got spoiled at the last second i cry for you i am sorry that that happens but
Yeah, it was big. It was about as big a water cooler moment as TV can be these days, which is probably less than it once could have. But a Sunday night HBO prestige drama that's one of the biggest shows in the world having this kind of moment, that's about as big a culture quake as scripted TV can cause.
So I was kind of cringing in anticipation of it, but also happy that it was going to just happen and be done and be behind us. And so... I was kind of just watching the world burn on Sunday night as people were finding out about it.
Yeah, the moment when you see the golf clubs in the background, it's like, all right, this is time.
It's time, finally. Yeah. What do you think the reaction will be to this after this episode, now that this is done? Will the audience grow because of the conversation this caused and people saying, oh, they'll do anything on this series. We don't know what's coming next.
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Chapter 3: What are the key similarities and differences between the show and the video game in Episode 2?
And I think that they maybe took pains not to do that this time. Not that it wasn't brutal. It absolutely was. But it was maybe slightly less dark and kind of hyper violent in some ways than the game was. We can talk about that. But I think they were conscious of that.
Like, look, people like Joel and people like Pedro Pascal, and we don't want to bash his brains in in the way that Glenn's brains were bashed in and also video game Joel's brains were bashed in. Yeah. Because then we might actually turn people off. So I... I kind of wonder whether that came up in conversation or whether they had that in mind.
Like you can push people, but don't go too far or they might turn on you. But I think I'm with you that they did not cross that line and that if anything, it will only enhance interest.
Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know, again, just thinking back to, like, Glenn dying, like, his eye was, like, popping out of his head and stuff. There are certainly levels to it. And I feel like The Last of Us and the creators are just very purposeful and intentional of, like, how much they're showing at times.
And I was reading, like, the director of this episode's discussion of it, and at first, like, they didn't have it necessarily, but it felt like they were kind of ducking away from that, showing that violence is what he was saying. And it felt like they needed to show it also because they need to show Ellie seeing it as well. Right.
So what's your quick take? Let's just give our high-level reaction here before we dive deeper into all of the changes and our analysis of those changes. How do you think they did porting this major moment to the screen in a different medium?
I loved it. I thought this was a fantastic episode of television and just the entire series run, of course. All of the innovations, I thought,
did a really nice job of making this also stand on its own in a way that they've been very good, I think, in terms of whenever there's a really big scene that's going to be important to the fans, like from season one, that scene when Ellie and Joel are talking to each other after Joel has decided to hand Ellie off to Tommy, like they basically didn't even touch that scene.
And I think they've just done a good job of like having this like calculus of like, When should we tweak things? When should we stick to the script? And I thought they made a lot of really nice changes with this one.
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Chapter 4: Why did the showrunners choose to change character pairings and dynamics in this episode?
However, there were some major deviations here, and I think they're really interesting to discuss. First, let's talk about the timing, because we were wondering, would they hold back? And ultimately, they didn't. And I celebrate that. I'm glad that they didn't. We thought, would you be tempted because you have Pedro Pascal and you have this character people care about?
Are you going to make us wait until later in the season? And they didn't do it.
There was a small part of me that was worried they were going to at least drag this out across two episodes. I feel like there's a version of this show that if it came out on Netflix and there was a binge model for it, they would have ended it with Abby grabbing the golf club or something. And then you'd have to jump to the next one.
But with the weekly release structure, thankfully, they just kept it to one. And I think that they did it really well in terms of that.
Yeah. Neil Druckmann said, even in the game, there's like an hour or something before you get to this moment. But we also knew it needed to be early enough because this is the inciting incident for this story. So, yes, we always pick every permutation. They considered every option.
But the later it got in the season, it just felt like we were kind of dragging our feet instead of getting to the meat of what the story is about. And I think that would have been palpable. If they had held this out for episode three or even later, we might have sensed that spinning of wheels a little bit.
Whereas here, I think they did it soon enough that they could still surprise people and also just kick the season into high gear. Mazin also said there's a danger of tormenting people. It's not what we want to do. That's exactly what Abby wants to do, but not the creators of the show. If people know it's coming, they will start to feel tormented.
And people who don't know it's coming are going to find out it's coming because people are going to talk about the fact that it hasn't shown up yet. Our instinct was to make sure that when we did it, that it felt natural in the story and was not some meta function of us wanting to upset people. So it's true.
The longer they drag this out, the fewer people would have been surprised by it because it would have been a big talking point on this show and many others. Why haven't they done it yet? When will they do it? And inevitably, some people would have picked up on that.
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Chapter 5: How did the portrayal of Abby's crew differ between the game and the show?
There's going to be a lot of things that it could change with their dynamic because of that, because Tommy wasn't there when this happened. He didn't kind of... introduce Joel to Abby in the first place so maybe he doesn't have that guilt weighing on him.
And then, of course, with just Dina and Ellie not being paired together, we don't know as much about their relationship as we do in the game at this point. So moving forward, it's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out.
Yeah, so we still get Eugene's weed den, but now it's a 7-Eleven, not a library basement. And because Ellie and Jesse are together, we don't get the Ellie-Dina-Blizzard sex. This is a big milestone in their relationship. That doesn't happen here.
So it's funny how the Eugene details are being changed, just like Joel taught Dina about rewiring electronics last week, which is something Eugene did in the game world. We still have vestiges of Eugene, but different things happening in different places at different times. And because of that, we don't get that big progression in the Ellie Dina romance, but
We get a different big progression in the sense that Dina is there to witness the murder. I mean, not literally, I guess, because she's knocked out mercifully by that point. But she's the one who's there with Joel, not Tommy. Craig Mason said one of the reasons we made a change from the game to have Joel in that room with Dina as opposed to Tommy. Who's a big, tough guy.
Abby is basically saying, make one mistake and we're going to kill her. And if there's one thing we know about Joel, it's that he's sort of the ultimate dad. We know he cares very much about Dina and that he would never let her suffer in any way, shape or form to defend herself. So that's interesting.
So it's he seems to be saying that Dina's presence made it an easier sell that Joel wouldn't resist more because if he's there with Tommy and the two of them could tag team Abby and her crew, that he might be more willing to to be reckless, to be more aggressive, to make more of an effort to save himself, which is it's kind of interesting because he doesn't really do that in the game either.
Right. And I I didn't think that much of that in the game. I mean, he takes a shotgun to the lower leg in both the game and the show, which, you know, despite Joel being a machine that does hamper his ability to stand up and fight just a tad. And then he has multiple people holding him down and he's getting beaten by a golf club. They're taking no chances with Joel.
So I never really thought that particularly. Like, why didn't Joel make more of a fight here? Right. But evidently, they thought that because Joel is such a juggernaut, that maybe TV viewers would find it more understandable if Dina was there to sort of cow him into not making more of a move. So I don't know. Does that really resonate for you as a rationale?
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Chapter 6: What is the significance of Abby explicitly explaining her motive on screen versus in the game?
clocking any of the former Firefly members like he probably would be because he's so distrustful. So I liked how there's all these little context things that are kind of taking him off his game already. And there's that one like deliberate shot where Joel's looking at Dina on the ground as he's like thinking like, all right, well, maybe I could try to lie my way out of this.
Like maybe there's another Joel or something. I don't know. Maybe there's something else he could lie, but.
Yeah, there's that moment. He almost lets his guard down because he's distracted. And he's telling them, take what you want. And they're like, do we look like raiders to you? And then he has that epiphany where he actually looks at them and takes their measure and says, no, and then realizes, oh, shit, like these are not just this is not a random raid.
These people are after me and their military and their ex fireflies. And I think maybe he he even is kind of kicking himself in a sense, not literally. Again, he gets kicked plenty, too, but just like I let my guard down. Usually I'm scanning the environment for threats. And here, because I'm so focused on the threat on Jackson, I didn't realize the threat that I was getting myself into here.
And I do like that moment. And I think Mason even mentioned because he's staring out the window at Jackson and the fires burning there, his impulse is, I got to get back. I got to help those people. And potentially Ellie, who, as far as he knows, is under attack, too. And Ellie kind of has a different reaction where she sees the attack on Jackson going on. And her thought is, I got to get to Joel.
So that kind of tells you what their priorities are. And that is also going to come into play later in the season, I think, because clearly Ellie will end up prioritizing vengeance for Joel over the protection of Jackson or safeguarding that community. So I think that is a nice little foreshadowing of what will happen here.
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Chapter 7: Could the show have been more restrained in revealing Abby's backstory, and what are the pros and cons?
Chapter 8: How do the hosts feel about the execution of this pivotal episode and its impact on the audience?
We get a different big progression in the sense that Dina is there to witness the murder. I mean, not literally, I guess, because she's knocked out mercifully by that point. But she's the one who's there with Joel, not Tommy. Craig Mason said one of the reasons we made a change from the game to have Joel in that room with Dina as opposed to Tommy. Who's a big, tough guy.
Abby is basically saying, make one mistake and we're going to kill her. And if there's one thing we know about Joel, it's that he's sort of the ultimate dad. We know he cares very much about Dina and that he would never let her suffer in any way, shape or form to defend herself. So that's interesting.
So it's he seems to be saying that Dina's presence made it an easier sell that Joel wouldn't resist more because if he's there with Tommy and the two of them could tag team Abby and her crew, that he might be more willing to to be reckless, to be more aggressive, to make more of an effort to save himself, which is it's kind of interesting because he doesn't really do that in the game either.
Right. And I I didn't think that much of that in the game. I mean, he takes a shotgun to the lower leg in both the game and the show, which, you know, despite Joel being a machine that does hamper his ability to stand up and fight just a tad. And then he has multiple people holding him down and he's getting beaten by a golf club. They're taking no chances with Joel.
So I never really thought that particularly. Like, why didn't Joel make more of a fight here? Right. But evidently, they thought that because Joel is such a juggernaut, that maybe TV viewers would find it more understandable if Dina was there to sort of cow him into not making more of a move. So I don't know. Does that really resonate for you as a rationale?
Yeah, I mean, it's different in the show in the sense that they're really drawing out this whole exchange in general. And it's interesting just to see the clocks turning for Joel in this moment, especially now that there's this whole other element in play with Jackson being under siege. So you have Joel looking out the window, seeing Jackson on fire. So he's already not...
clocking any of the former Firefly members like he probably would be because he's so distrustful. So I liked how there's all these little context things that are kind of taking him off his game already. And there's that one like deliberate shot where Joel's looking at Dina on the ground as he's like thinking like, all right, well, maybe I could try to lie my way out of this.
Like maybe there's another Joel or something. I don't know. Maybe there's something else he could lie, but.
Yeah, there's that moment. He almost lets his guard down because he's distracted. And he's telling them, take what you want. And they're like, do we look like raiders to you? And then he has that epiphany where he actually looks at them and takes their measure and says, no, and then realizes, oh, shit, like these are not just this is not a random raid.
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